00:00

Welcome to Make More Money Without Selling Your Soul. The podcast for bold entrepreneurs ready to simplify scale and reclaim their time. I’m Polly Lavarello, Evergreen scaling strategist and cushy business pioneer. Join me and my occasional guests as we explore the themes of wealth, selling and well-being, because building a business that works for you changes everything. Let’s dive in.

00:37

Hello and welcome to the show. Today’s episode is an absolute gem. I’m joined by the one and only Suman randawa, award winning sales and messaging consultant CCO of atomic, an all round powerhouse with a pirate radio DJ past. We dive into what happens when your carefully laid plans go completely off script and lead you somewhere even better, from leaving corporate after decades to getting paid to speak on Europe’s biggest stages to writing a book she didn’t plan to write, Suman shares the raw truth of growing a heart led business, the power of belief, especially when it’s borrowed, and why success doesn’t always come In the shape you expect this conversation is packed with real talk, generous wisdom, and the kind of reflections you’ll want to rewind and replay. So let’s get into it. Shall we welcome Suman to the show I am so happy to have you here today, particularly atomic on my goodness, yeah.

01:39

Are we crazy? We’re definitely crazy. We may be slightly crazy. Yeah. And just for context for anyone listening, this is a day after Atomicon has wrapped up, which Suman was deeply involved in. But we’ll get more into that in just a moment. So for anyone who hasn’t met you yet, please introduce yourself to my listeners. Yes, myself. Yourself to my listeners. I certainly will. Polly, great to see you again. So for those of you that don’t know me, my name is Suman, Suman Randhawa, and I describe myself as a sales and messaging consultant. So I’ve been running my own business for around about the last three and a half years. But earlier this year, I actually joined a another business as their CCO. So that’s that’s now my full time role, but interestingly enough, it’s the same world that I’m in already. So it’s, you know, the world of small business, sales and marketing. I also am an award winner, and I am an author and a keynote speaker. So I think that’s the best way to describe me. And my background is decades in sales. So I literally went from working for others to realizing that I could help people who really made a difference in the world make more money in their business. Yeah, you know what I’m so excited about is I was reflecting on the fact that I had you on my previous podcast back in the day. I know when I had the embodied Business Revolution. I know and when I look at the Suman who’s in front of me today, compared to the conversation back then, you were already incredibly impressive. But there’s an there’s an embodiedness to who you are now, a groundedness, yeah, and this kind of easy authority about you that it’s just coming in spades. It’s just so delightful to watch your evolution. Thank you. It’s amazing. And I mean, what, what do you feel has been part of that journey in terms because, like you say, you’ve since, since we last spoke, you’ve published a book, yeah, you’re now working alongside Andrew and Pete. I am. Yeah, I think you might have won that award since we spoke as well. I won the award last year. Yeah. So tell us what, what happened? Well, I mean, so much has happened, and I really appreciate your comment, and I feel like I knew this as I was getting ready for this talk, like I feel like this conversation is going to be really raw and really honest, probably because I’ve known you for a few years, and because I know that you have all always seen the journey, I kind of like, I’m a little bit reticent to admit this, but I think so many people are going to relate. So the first thing is, I’ve always worked hard. That’s like, that’s like, literally, it’s in my DNA. But as we know in business, it’s not just about working hard, if only just the hard people got their justice, if only, only the people who work really hard are a success like we know that that’s not necessarily what it is, but I think one of the things that I’ve learned about myself is that having people who believed in me more than maybe I believed in myself, so having I’ve worked with a lot of coaches like, I’m sure, higher than the average number of people. So I’ve continually worked with coaches. I’ve been myself, and I think I just got a little bit lucky Polly that I met some incredible people who had my back. So much that that kind of helped me on the journey, and then even the story of, kind of how I’ve ended up with this incredible role, you know, working for these two amazing guys. And again, it’s somebody said it to me at atomicon. Somebody came up to me and said they’ve really got your back. And I was like, Yeah, I know. And we were strangers. We were strangers who met when I applied to be a speaker, you know, almost two years ago. So I think the answer to your question was working on my own belief. This is the bit I’m reticent about, because that should be the only thing that’s important. But I think it was also getting fortunate to have some great people around me who believed in me so much that on my hard days, I had no choice but to think, well, what if they’re right? What? What if I really can do this? I know, right? Really, really raw admission, but that’s it.

05:52

I don’t know, but I listen to you, and I think it’s not entirely luck. I well that there’s, I mean, I don’t feel it’s luck at all, in many ways, because I think there’s two things that are intrinsic to what can be perceived as luck. One thing is, you’re a blooming good egg, like you equally have other people’s backs. You equally other people. Yeah, you are a woman’s woman.

06:14

That is true. That is true. Yeah? So that there’s that piece. And also, like you have, you’ve not been apologetic about your ambition and what you’ve been out to create and do, yeah? And that’s really inspiring. And when women see that we want, well, the good ones want to support that, you know, and you’ve surrounded yourself by good women, but good women want to be around other good women. So I think that’s so true, yeah? And I think the other thing I’d like to say, which I think is important, is like luck comes when we are willing to also fail a lot of times, and hear a lot of no’s, of course, yeah, and that’s where it can feel like it’s luck, but actually, a lot of people don’t put themselves in the room or even kind of allow for that opportunity to materialize, which I feel like you’ve been amazing at Doing, yeah. So to kind of, you know, to have that conversation with Andrew and Pete in the first place, to be on that stage, to do all of those things. I mean, did you feel ready for any of those things when they first came about? Do you know? Do you know what, Polly, it’s very generous of you. Thank you very much. But I think, you know, when I said about, you know, I’ve just tried to be myself, yeah. And I remember we spoke about this when we spoke. I think what two and a half years ago, maybe even three, is that there was a different drive for me, like I’d been in corporate for nearly three decades. I’d had some great experiences in corporate. I wouldn’t be who I am now if it wasn’t for what I learned in corporate. I’m a great you know, I’m a great manager. I’m very strategic. I have experience of lots and lots of different types of people, but I had a bit of a tough last career. It was kind of my last corporate role, and it’s only now that I can, like, confidently say it was terrified. I mustn’t say it was a bad experience. It was tough. It was really tough, and I felt like I hit a ceiling, and no matter what way I tried to move, I couldn’t progress from the level that I was at. I was stagnant, and with that came a lot of frustration. So the shift came, which I spoke about, probably when we spoke few years ago, was when I started to realize, like I needed to take responsibility. So I really love what I do. I have a great belief in what I do, and I genuinely enjoy it, like I genuinely from beginning, from the beginning of the day to the end of the day. I really enjoy my work. So the tough bit becomes when you’re then needing to marry that with bringing in enough money to be profitable. That was a big learning for me. You can make lots of money but to be profitable. So I think when I came out of corporate, the belief that I had that helped me launch my business like that sermon was so driven she she knew she was capable of anything, but there was still a little bit of an after effect of having worked with people who maybe didn’t support and encourage me, which then also probably meant I wasn’t the best employee, because I was miserable. So when you’re miserable, you must become difficult to manage. So I do take some of that responsibility. So I think when it came into launching my own business, I worked with some incredible coaches, mainly female, but some male as well. But the vast majority of coaches I worked with were so supportive. So I already always had the ambition and the belief, but I was able to tap into that a lot more. So even the very first time, I asked if I could be on the biggest stage that I could be on? Yeah, I waited for the moment. I was like, Okay, let’s see how I’m feeling in this week. On the day where I’m feeling strong and confident, that’s when I send the email. It’s not on the day where, you know, my hormones are raging, perimenopause is kicking in. I’ve got terrible anxiety. That’s not the day to send the message. So, yeah, I think I do. Believe in myself, but it’s just battling it with the other voice, yes, yeah, oh, that’s so real though, isn’t it? Like, I think, to imagine that we always believe in ourselves every day and wake up super resilient. It’s just not, not most people’s I mean, I don’t think I know anyone who feels like that every single day, and I love that you kind of chose the moment where you were feeling, yeah, at your best to kind of make that big pitch, yeah. So tell us more. Tell us what happened, yeah.

10:27

So I think I mean those, those that don’t know the story. So I knew that I wanted to, I wanted to be paid as a speaker. However, I I’m going to say a caveat with that, because some of the great speaking gigs in inverted commas that I got have not been paid for, but wow, what I have got back. And I don’t just mean leads, I mean profile, I mean opportunities, I mean exposure. You know, some people go into these things just with how many leads am I going to get? Maybe as a sales consultant. I should do a little bit more of that. But actually, that is not how I approach things. I approach things with. Am I doing something that I love? Do I enjoy reaching more people? Is it developing me in a way that I want to be developed? And because not everybody wants to stand on a stage, and rightly so, like rehearsing every single day for the last three months. You know, it’s not the easiest thing to do. And then before that, writing a book every day for 18 months. But I think when I pitched myself and put myself forward, there was that other thing again, there Polly, I can still remember their very first reply to me, and I didn’t know at the time that it was the Andrew and Pete. I was like, Oh, it must have been one of their team replying to me. Replying to me, yeah. Like, they were like, you know, we’ve just had a look at your social media. Like, we love what you do. They’ve never heard of me. I hadn’t heard of them. It was a chance opportunity that I happened to apply because I’d heard somebody else was applying, and I thought, well, you know, why not me? And again, it was just Polly surrounding myself by good people, and they just had my back. And they were like that. This is the application process. We love what you do. There’s not enough women in sales who are speaking around heart led and ethical like tap into that. We think you can really do this. Even when I put my application form in, I remember they replied with, we loved your application form. And I was thinking, Oh, they must send this to everyone. But they wrote, you know, now it’s about if it fits which, by the way, for anyone who’s listening, who you know has ambitions to be a speaker, I think we have to remember that, that it has to fit with the theme, and honestly, that, as they say, was the beginning of an incredible journey again. Before they met me, they booked me as a consultant, associate coach within their coaching program. Again, before they met me, they invited me up to a mastermind to help them co host it. I now know that they were watching me because they had an opportunity they wanted to present me to present me to but it just goes back to what you’re saying, Polly. You know, I think when we go in with good intentions, and it’s always, it’s not just about, how does this benefit me? And I think that’s the other thing is, how does this help them? So I think with most of my approaches, yeah, I do. I do like to champion people, but I don’t just do it because I’m thinking, what do I get back? I sometimes do it because I just think they’re great people. I want to be around them. Their company is enjoyable. And I think that might be one of the things that’s helped me have an interesting and a year as I have had, is that I haven’t always gone in with right? How is this going to make me money? I’m just like, do I enjoy it? Will it make a difference? Is it going to be helpful to people, and what’s in it for the person that I’m approaching?

13:47

Yeah. I love those reflections, because it sounds very intuitive, but also deeply rooted in what feels good, which I guess very much aligns with your whole more heart less hustle in sales. Yeah. So I feel that leads quite nicely on to, like, tell us a bit more about how the book then played a role in your I mean, was that part of your kind of strategy to get on more stages? Yeah. I mean, I love that I’m laughing, and the reason that I’m laughing Polly is there wasn’t, there wasn’t a plan. So how the book came back, and I am so unbelievably proud of it. Anybody who’s ever written a book knows it’s quite a sacrifice. You know, every morning or however and whenever you write, it’s the discipline. And, you know, I worked with a coach. I also worked with someone who helped me self publish the book. So I am actually bearing in mind, you know, it’s a book that’s self published. I invested quite heavily, and a bit like a lot of things that we do, I think why I’m so proud of it is because in my hands, is then something that represents my brand. I didn’t, I didn’t cut corners anywhere. So to go back to how it started, and she speaks about this publicly. Which is the only reason I’m going to mention it. But you know, my book coach was my client before, before I’d ever worked with her, and we worked together for six months, and it was a great six months, and I helped her on the launch of her very first book group program. And I thought this sounds so good. This is probably why I’m so good at sales, because I actually love spelling spending money as well. I just thought this sounds so good that I ended up to join her beta test so we’d stop working together. Now, I then became her client, and I arrived in this group program with no idea. I just thought it was a nice to have. I think it’s the next thing that you do in business, you know, you get on a stage, you write a book, so I had zero ideas. But again, the advantage of working with someone who is able to coach you in the right direction, she helped me recognize the kind of book I wanted to write. Now, my book took me quite some time to write. Took me 18 months, and within that 18 months, and that’s from the very first idea all the way through to it, you know, being for sale. But the very first thing that happened was I had to kind of come up with the idea and the concept. It was also my very first atomicon, which was, you know, the biggest sales and marketing conference in Europe, had the opportunity to be a speaker there. So I literally, last year, I took like, three months off everything so that I could just prepare for the talk. And I laugh, because this year was like, it’s just like having loads of children, because I just had so much that I was managing. It was just, you know, it’s a very different approach this year, because, again, how I’ve developed, but when I go back to writing the book. So the book was going okay. I’d started in about October of 23 we got to about April of 24 and I was starting to not have as much creativity in my writing, and I was starting to get my chapters being sent back to me. And I was like, Oh, God, like the quality is dropping here. So I took three months off my book. Coach was like, that’s fine. I know you’ve got a big talk to prepare for, but we’re going to pick this back up in September. And I was kind of hoping that maybe she would forget and wouldn’t, wouldn’t message me. We’ve all been there, yeah, and she didn’t forget and she did message me. But what was very interesting, and I think this was the beginning of the shift had happened. We got back on the call, and I said she called, she called Amy Warren. I feel like she definitely deserves a mention. I said, Amy, I was like, I don’t think I’m the person I was when I started writing the book. And she was like, I knew you were gonna say that. Yeah. So what I realized was that the book could become a book that is almost like a foundation. No matter where you are in your journey. It’s like a blueprint around your relationship with sales. And I suddenly got back into my flow, because I understand stood what the book was for, and when I’ve seen the people that have bought it alongside, obviously, friends, because I know friends, you know, and business pals are very supportive. But people have been buying it for their teams. I’ve had a university buy it for entrepreneurial students, and I that’s when I was like, Okay, I got it right. I had very experienced coaches saying this has been really great, just to kind of reground me with maybe my perception, and then we’ve got people who are nervous about sales. So that’s the journey of the book, and I’m just so pleased that I persevered, because had I not had a coach, that book wouldn’t be on the shelf behind me like it wouldn’t have happened. So yeah, that’s the journey of the book, and I’m the biggest smile comes from the fact that, yes, I’m proud of it, but I’m also really proud that it’s done and it’s over. That’s the best bit relief done. Yep, relief, huge relief, because it’s one less thing to be thinking about.

18:51

So it sounds like along this journey of yours, you’ve kind of followed a lot of the nudges, the nudge to write the book, The nudge to get back on writing the book, and, and, and, I know you mentioned obviously, the kind of importance of surrounding yourself by people who want you to succeed. Yeah, you know, if you not been nudged to get back on that book horse, perhaps it wouldn’t be back there. So, and yeah. And similarly, with your kind of evolution alongside Andrew and Pete and atomicon. Yeah, it’s been a series of smaller moments that have all led up to the bigger moment. So what, what is the trajectory of your career right now? What lies ahead in terms of, you’ve got all these talks under your belt, you’ve got a book under your belt, you’ve got this amazing position supporting the incredible Andrew and Pete. What’s your focus right now in business?

19:40

So it’s really interesting. You know, when we, when we started having the discussions, which was really unexpected, because I’ve been working so hard on building my business and brand, and it was, it was getting to a really good place. And then when I was approached, I was flattered, but I was also like, like, this wasn’t on the plan, yeah. Like, I love. Working for myself, I have loved not having what my memory of corporate was, which was someone looking down my, you know, looking looking at my back at all times and like watching me. But I think what I recognize is I, regardless of the choices that we make, ask myself a serious question. So I’m 53 I’m going to be 54 in six months time, like that. That’s like, you know, that’s a big age. And I know this is my like, this is my chance. This is my time. I’ve waited my entire career, my entire career, for opportunities like this. So when I spoke to them, the question I asked myself was, which I think we have to ask ourselves with whatever we do, whatever associate opportunity we might have, speaking, speaking gig and my my ambition isn’t an ambition that involves being bigger and better than everyone else. I just want to be the best that I can be. It is not a consistent thing for me, like, yeah, definitely. It’s like, Yeah. People talk about legacy. It I don’t know who the legacy is for I don’t have children. Maybe the legacy is for my nephews. Maybe it’s just for the people that love and know me. But I want, I want to have made my mark. So I knew that. I knew that when I launched my business, I wanted to make my mark. So when I was speaking to Andrew and Pete, the question I asked myself is, am I going to get there? There being my ambition to have really made a significant impact faster on my own, or working with two incredible guys who are very different to me. They have never worked in corporate. They’re 20 years younger than me. I come from a corporate background, and in a way, again, I love that. I’m like, wow, they see something in me, even though we are chalk and cheese in many, in many ways, because we have such different backgrounds. So question I ask myself is, look what they have achieved. Am I going to learn more? And, you know, there’s the book, make the boat go faster, which I think is about the Olympic rowing team. Am I going to learn more progress, more reach more people, with them or without them? And eventually, the answer was very clear to me, and what that has allowed me to do is, I think finally, with my own business, the pressure’s off, of course, in a different way, and yet this seems to be the most popular, again, in inverted commas, that I have ever been. And I think it’s because the urgency has come from the way I’m showing up. I can say yes to people, I can say no. I can make sure it’s an absolute right fit, and I have to be sensible with my time, because regardless of the fact that I have these two wings, I have, I have a priority, and my priority is my day role. So yeah, so I think that’s the other shift you probably see Polly. Is that of going faster, but the urgency has gone. So you said, Where do I see myself in five years time? I think that’s the question that you asked me. I don’t think

23:05

I mentioned five years, but yes, okay, but let’s go with that, because I like that better than my questions. What was your question? It was like, you know, do you have a kind of we do have a plan. I have a plan. I can’t, I can’t necessarily discuss the plan, but the one thing that I do know is I for myself and also for the people that I have now joined. It is to be the biggest and best that we can be, and I say that we as me individually, as well as the people that I support, as well as the clients that I work with, the basic because I just want to be happy and healthy. Polly, yeah, I would like to be able to, you know, I think running your own business one of the biggest things that I realized is running your own business and making money in your business is one thing, being profitable and having enough money for yourself. I was about to swear there, having enough money for yourself is quite another so I want to be comfortable. And yeah, I just, I there are some things coming up that I can’t share right now, and maybe by the time this comes out, you know, there will be out and about. But I just, I just know that life and business feels like it’s in a very exciting place, and I am growing, and I am around people who the summon that I am might have a tendency sometimes to kind of say, well, I’ll do it in small, incremental steps, and then when I’m ready, I’ll make the big move. Well, I work for two guys who don’t think like that. They say, No, you go straight to the top, and you jump straight in. And I go, What if it goes wrong? And they’re like, well, then you learn, and you get you get to do it better next time. And I’m smiling because it’s so refreshing, because I haven’t done that for myself. And then in corporate, somebody else is in charge of your career. So I worked for bosses. Sometimes I worked for great. Bosses. Often, I work for bosses who they kept you at a level. They decided where you were at. So now I’m in the I’m in the world of small business and startup, but I’m with two people who are like, No, you can do it. And I Okay, wow, okay, then I can do it. So, yeah, this so kind of all the elements you wanted and the way you’d like to work. They’ve not necessarily come about by the means that you’d imagine potentially a year ago, no, but they’ve landed kind of bigger and better, by the sounds of it, than anything you probably would have ever imagined. Right?

25:34

Yeah, they really have. And you know, for transparency, as well as I said, I’ve worked with a lot of coaches, but I’ve also worked with a lot of coaches on the, I think we call it somatic work, you know, on the on the self belief, the stories, you know, for some people, they might call that therapy. For some people, they might call that, you know, working with with energy. Like, I think there’s lots of different ways that you do it, but that feels also like it has been quite transitional for me, because I’d done so much work on the business that I realized things were starting to repeat. And also it’s about what bits was I enjoying. And I was doing the let’s run a group program, and then suddenly, when I was working as an associate coach in Andrew and Pete’s group program. I was like, these are the clients. Like, these are a great match. Like, I’m enjoying this so much more. And what I realized is that ish, the issue is just sometimes, who are we attracting? Yes, and that has an impact then on how your business is running. And again, that can be reflected by you not charging enough. So I think there’s just been so many light bulbs that have gone off, off for me, and now I get a little bit more of a luxury to say, Okay, well, where do I want to position myself? What is the value that I place on the transformation that I’m offering people? And it’s, you know, I know that’s probably what you’ve been teaching everybody for quite some time, but I needed, I needed to land there myself. Because I was told it I needed to get there myself.

27:07

I think that’s such a valuable reflection, because that’s the thing that Money Can’t Buy, that lived experience does. I think, you know, like, there’s so many, I mean, funnily enough, I found that, you know, through going to various talks at atomicon, there were some things I’m like, I have heard this before in a different way, some of it, maybe some, maybe, in some cases, a lot of it, but it was still really valuable, because there’s so many things that we need. Every time we hear it, we receive it slightly differently, of course. Or it applies to our lives in a different way, or it allows a different level of depth that we haven’t yet explored. And and, yeah, there’s so many things that you can be told something, but until you’re actually living it, you don’t know. And I know before we hit record, one of the things you reflected on is how so often, particularly in the coaching space, we can kind of have this indication that growth is this, this kind of linear, kind of almost set of rules in terms of, you know, you need to do this, you need to do that, tick, tick, various tick boxes. And how, actually, the journey you’ve been on has kind of evolved and shifted into something so much bigger and better than anything you set out to do in the first place. I mean, I’d love to know, with that in mind, when you think about the version of you who set out in this journey in the first place he left corporate and was about to get that, like, is there anything, if you could go back in time and kind of offer advice that version of you who was setting out something that you perhaps tried, you were like, Oh, actually, that was a waste of time. Didn’t need to do that. What would you advise that version of you now?

28:36

So I think the only thing that that version of me like, it’s a dif is a difficult one, because the biggest mistake I made in the first two years is I really didn’t understand cash flow or how you’re meant to spend money in a limited company. So I just did it because I thought that’s what you did. So I set up a limited company on reflection, maybe in the beginning, I should have been a sole trader. So, like, that kind of information was just not available to me. I didn’t realize the amount of support there is, you know, within local councils where businesses can get, like, free enterprise advice. I didn’t know that that existed. So I just did what I thought you did. And then the other thing that I did, which is very similar, is I just spent a lot of money. So I made good money, and I spent it all. So whilst I I’m laughing, because that was just totally my job. I don’t understand. I’m having 30k months, but I’m not feeling particularly rich right now. 5k photo shoot that the essential kind of crazy tech stack and the crazy Mac domains, I mean, like, and all the coaching and the retreats and the yes went out of hand.

29:49

It was all of that. And I think as well, I started with the best of everything. Like, I remember the first platform I signed up to was. Kajabi. And I think you use Kajabi. So, yeah, Kajabi is amazing. I just started out in business. I didn’t need Kajabi. I didn’t spend that money a month. So, like, that’s a small example, but that’s the kind of thing, like, I just, well, they say, step into your future self. I clearly was, because I was acting like, you know, a very successful business owner in the sense that I was probably just making sure I spent on quality and I had, like the best of everything. So I think I am. I do believe that my my speed of growth has come from the amount that I have invested. Because the thing is, I’ve been around so many people Polly, even the ones that weren’t the perfect match that I have got to see and experience. So many different types of programs I’ve also met so many people. The very first group program I joined had 75 people. So it’s like being, you know, something at university. And I feel like that’s also been very fortunate in me having a community, because the thing I would tell someone is, your friendship groups are going to change. And that’s that’s quite that’s quite tough. You make a lot of friends in business, but they are your friends, because your friends in business initially. So again, your your at home friends, or your your past friends, or your friends that you work with in corporate suddenly have a very different lifestyle to you. So I think I would let her know change changes coming, and if you’re looking for support from your friends in terms of supporting your social media posts following you like you need to work on that, because that’s not necessarily going to be happening. So I think I would give her that advice, and I would say, look, it is really worthwhile that you are investing someone, but maybe you don’t need the best of everything right now, and maybe you can kind of scrimp a little bit there. So I think that’s, that’s probably the advice I’d give myself.

31:58

Yeah, you know, I have such mixed feelings around the whole investing thing. Because, on the one hand, I think that was daft, and then at the same time, I think, Al, I’m still here, and maybe it played a role in that. And sometimes I see people really early on in business, talking about, oh, people are banging the drum about having a six figure business, but they’re not mentioning all their expenses. And a part of me thinks we’ll get with the kind of, you know, there’s a level of awareness. We also need to have that. If you do want a sustainable business, if you do want to have systems that mean you don’t have to be on all the time, if you do want to kind of make sure you can actually have time off and all the other pieces, then yes, that does come with expenses. But in my mind, I’m always like, but if you can get to six figures, you can get to multi six figures, you can get to seven figures, and at some point those expenses won’t seem so big, but to assume that we can just avoid them is kind of, I don’t know. So I like your reflection there. And I also just want to say thank you for sharing that, because I don’t think enough people are transparent about the big investments we can make early on in business. And I kind of feel like Jury’s out slightly as to like, yes, that can feel like, did we need everything? And there’s definitely a truth to that, but also an element of, I think, courageously investing in ourselves and showing that level of self trust, yeah, is also a really valuable muscle to flex, because it’s the same muscle that’s flexed when you put yourself up for standing on a stage and giving a talk, and writing that book, and all these other phenomenal things you’ve done as well. Yeah, and I think you have to take some responsibility for yourselves as well. Like, oh, just, just reflecting as you were speaking. This is the first time since I launched my business, which was at the I mean, I was kind of like exploring the business since, since early 2021, so this now is the first time that I am not working with a coach, and I think that’s now, like I had to get to a point where I was like, you have a lot of information now. Like, you know the best of everything now and now what what you need to do is actually just kind of manage your time. And sometimes you and I were speaking again, you know, before we started the podcast, sometimes when we’re working with people who are far advanced than us in business, that for me, is like coaching, because you’re getting to watch and see how people are running their businesses. So it, you know, I did eventually get to the stage where I was like, right? I just need to have a break for a bit, because I have worked with so many coaches, and I just also needed to get some time back in my diary.

34:27

Yeah, but I can also imagine the proximity you have to Andrew. I never go Pete and Andrew. It’s Andrew and Pete. It’s always that way around. The proximity you have to them is, in and out of itself, one of the most valuable learnings ever. Like you say, seeing how they think, seeing how they operate absolutely from when you mentioned incremental to kind of great leaps and learning along the way, yeah, in the house of itself is incredibly potent. And I know that was early on in my journey, when I was running Facebook ads for seven figure, eight figure coaching businesses. Similarly, it was a massive learning curve for me to see how they operated. And how they made decisions looked entirely different to conservative early on in business, me absolutely and definitely gave huge insight as to how and why they were so successful without being particularly, you know, they didn’t have PhDs or have anything in credit. You know, in fact, one of the things that I’m not going to say is about Andrew peaks. I don’t imagine this is necessarily true, but I’ll say, for a lot of businesses I supported, there was a bit of mess going on behind the scenes that, yeah, I kind of thought you can’t create success in the mess at some point. I need to have a very clean, tidy life and all the pieces together for things to work. And seeing, actually, a lot of other businesses that very much did create success in the mess, not, you know, not chaotic, chaotic, but enough was actually really eye opening and liberating and exciting to kind of see that you don’t need to have all your ducks in a row to get to where you need to be.

35:49

Yeah, it’s interesting actually, because I was, I’ve been reflecting on so, you know, kind of where I was in my business was, you know, someone who was heading for and aspiring for her first six figure year. So I would say, you know, I was kind of like, high five figures was probably the best that I had done in my business. And so, like, you know, that that first six figure was probably the very next thing that was going to happen. And then moving to a business where I’m, you know, supporting people who are obviously making substantially more than that, one of the first things that I discovered really early on, because I was, like, really curious, like, what, what is the biggest difference between the way seven figure plus business owners run their business and someone with my background, and I had thought maybe they know they I’m talking generally, by the way. I’m not making this specific to anyone, but just those that I’ve been around, I had thought maybe they know more than me. Maybe they’re, again, cleverer in inverted commas. But, you know, this kind of like this knowledge bank and interestingly enough, Polly, actually, systems is something that I have discovered is really helpful. I’m not going to say key, but I think it is really helpful in running a successful business at scale, you know, automation, making sure that everything is not being done manually. And then the other thing that I realized is the way in which very successful business owners, again, I cannot speak for everyone. I can only speak for the ones that I have seen, and I’m I’m defining success successful. I mean, everybody’s successful in their own right. But the purpose of this example, I’m defining it as seven figure plus. And what I had seen with some of those that I have exposure to is how focused they are with their day. They’re not necessarily working evenings, not necessarily working weekends. In fact, they don’t, but their diary is really focused, and what I realized is there was a bit of me when I was only responsible for myself, where if I got tired or I wasn’t really in the mood, my foot would come off the pedal. Yeah and yeah, I can relax. And I think the thing is, when you are whether they’re your clients, or whether you’re working with them like I am, in the capacity with, you know, the atomic guys that I work with is actually you have to be very focused with your time to keep moving forward and having that momentum. And that’s where I think the biggest difference can be between people who are maybe not quite able to scale. So I don’t know based on your knowledge. Do you feel like that was a good perception?

38:33

Yeah, definitely focus and systems 100% and I think there is, I think behind all of that, there is that mindset piece, that self trust piece, because one of the things that enables us to focus with that level of discipline is a kind of, well, a a devotion to what we’re doing, but also B, that kind of, that trust that, like you said earlier, if it’s if it doesn’t work out, we’ll learn, and we’ll do it better, we’ll come back. And I think that’s where we kind of have to detach a bit of ego there. And I think that’s something that the most successful business owners I’ve ever supported are really good at. They don’t allow it to mean anything about them as individuals they’re able to and that actually almost does require a slightly corporate mindset, where you’re kind of not looking at your business as an extension of yourself. You’re looking at it as a business absolutely so that you can bounce back and be like, interesting. Okay, so that’s not being received the way we thought it would, what’s next, and actually, ideally having that what’s next already lined up in the on the assumption that the first one time might not have worked. Yeah, that’s how we kind of keep things flowing the way they need to. And I think one of the challenges for earlier on business owners is a Yeah, it can be hard to find the discipline in the first place. But even more so, if at the back of your mind you’re thinking, what if I do all of this and I still fail? What if I do all of this and I’m rejected? What if I do all of this and I fall flat on my face? So I think there’s a bit of kind of getting over that piece in the first place. And similarly, what we were saying earlier on about making, you know, spending money in the business. To have those automations and systems in place, there will almost inevitably be a sticky spot where you feel like you have over invested in those tools before you start. But at the same time, if you wait to have the kind of mess and chaos being created before you implement them, that’s also a really non ideal way to go about doing things. It pays to have those things in place, because it creates that spaciousness to be able to give your focus to the other areas of your business as well. So yeah, there’s a lot of kind of behind all of that, that self trust piece. I mean, would you agree?

40:33

I mean, yeah, I think that was probably systems and operations. And interestingly enough, this also fits into data, you know, you and I have just been at Atomicon, and the number of people in very, very different fields who were talking about the fact, basically, you know, we can reframe it however we want to call it, but look at your data, look at your evidence. Look at how things are performing. You know, you’ll know from your Facebook, you know, ads times you’ve got to test, but in order to test, you only change one element at a time. Yeah, and the challenge is, when you’re doing that as a solopreneur, I mean, when you said Facebook ads, I was like, wow, you deserve an MBE for literally being able to do those. Because that’s one of the more painful times in my my business has been learning at so I think again, it’s sometimes we’re wearing multiple hats as solopreneurs, and it’s not always the most sensible use of our time, because working almost 24 hours to get my ads working would have been better just getting an expert in so to go back to what you Were saying, yes, you have to test and you have to be willing to allow things and evidence to tell you what did and didn’t work, so that you know what to do more of. And actually everybody from, you know, Grace, Andrew Stephen Bartlett’s right hand lady at atomicon, all the way through to, you know, other other speakers were all talking about, look at the data. What is the data telling you? So that was a consistent thing for me, actually, across all speakers.

42:10

And I get so much pushback and resistance from my clients whenever I mentioned that at all, because there’s that desire to kind of move intuitively and use our gut and all of those pieces. And I think also there’s an urgency that a lot of smaller business owners can feel around I’ve done all this work. I’ve just been editing this reel for however long this needs to be the reel that succeeds. So that kind of scientific approach you were just referencing in terms of just changing the captions, or just changing the color, or just starting that video like a few seconds later, so that the hook is slightly different. Those are the really small, simple things. And a lot of my clients struggle to believe it can be that simple and that easy. And the ones who do allow to do allow themselves to understand it can be that simple and that easy and that scientific, definitely succeed a lot sooner than those who push back. And then it does get to feel like this spacious, enjoyable business that feels almost too good to be true. But I think a lot of people don’t allow themselves to get there because, yeah, ego, I guess, is what it boils down to,

43:13

yeah. And I think we have to be honest to ourselves. You just said something there, and it it resonated, which is, you know, I was talking about. Now, what I’ve learned this year is about having focus slots in my diary. It’s not necessarily the way that I am used to working, but I have learned it’s a very effective way of working. So it’s like, I block out the amount of time I’m spending on something, and that’s useful for someone like me, because I can tell you my train journey from Newcastle to London, I spent that entire time editing one reel. And I’m being really honest. Nobody wants to admit that it took, you know, we mustn’t, at this level of success, admit that I’ve spent three hours on a reel, but I did, and that’s why, when I’m back and I’m at my desk, I follow my calendar, because my calendar tells me what to do. Actually, editing a reel like you’ve just said, that isn’t going to make me money in my business, so I either need to do that at another time, get faster on the task, or outsource it. But I certainly now that I follow my calendar. You know that that’s not a reasonable amount of time, but because I was on the train and there was nothing else that I was going to be doing, I allowed myself to spend that hideous amount of time on one reel.

44:31

I love that reflection, because I think it’s so easy for us to forget. Like, you know, we get to design our own business. We get to design how we use our time. And funnily enough, I even got some pushback from my team. So today’s a good example. I’m recording a podcast with you. I’ve recorded two other podcasts, and I record all my guest podcasts on one day of each month. Yeah, I’m doing two next month because in August, I’m taking that month off from any calls. But it’s all very systemized, and it does mean it’s a slightly tiring day, but I get in the tea and I get in the biscuits, yeah, but my team did. Say at the time, they were like, well, what if somebody can’t do that one day? I’m like, well, but this is the most organized way I can run my business. It’s the best use of my time because I was doing them all over the shop, in different places, and it just wasn’t working well energetically, dipping in out of a coaching call, which was really intensive to then suddenly doing an interview. Yeah. And it’s these tiny things, which can seem relatively insignificant when you stack them all up, make a huge difference to how we can run our business. Yeah,

45:27

I’ve seen it myself. I’ve only been working in this more focused way, probably for about the last four months, and I’ve seen the difference like no one’s making me work this way. It was shown to me as a really effective way of working. I was resistant to it, but could see it was really effective. And here I am, four months later, and I’m still working in that way, because it’s better for me, because it just means I spend the right time doing the right right tasks.

45:54

Yeah, I love that, and I love the humanness of like and alongside that, you know, a few hours on a train editing a reel, because that’s highly rated, because that’s also me. By the way, I have days where I’m like, Oh well, it’s all very organized, and other days I’m like, and I’m going to spend several hours crazy. Well, I knew I had that it was almost like, dead time, yeah. I mean, you know, I was so tired. Wi Fi wasn’t brilliant. So it wasn’t the day that I was going to go through all my emails. So it’s almost dead time. And it’s funny, isn’t it? You take as long as you give yourself. So true. I knew I had three hours, and so I spent the entire three hours creating real. If I had 20 minutes, it would have been done in 20 Yeah.

46:32

That is also very, very true. So I’m curious to know what is next. What is next for you? I know you just said you’re not allowed to share. What are you allowed to say in terms of what is next for you? Yeah, I think what’s next for me is really to get more competent and confident in the worlds of small business and marketing. So I feel like that’s the best way for me to put it. So for me, what that means is making sure that I price myself the right way, because my time is now limited. So it means I work with people who are really aligned to the work that I do, and then in my incredible work that I get to do during the day is being really focused and understanding what the mission and vision of the business is. And, you know what Polly, I think there’s a little bit of, obviously, you know, obviously, clearly, there’s strategies, and I know exactly when everything is happening. But again, the summon of the past probably wasn’t someone who just allowed to see where, you know, where the wind takes her. And I feel like there’s an element of, this is a really exciting adventure that I feel like I’m on, and I’m just, yeah, I’m just like, I’m here for the journey. So I’m here to say where, where does the excitement of working with incredible people like this allow, allow me to take myself so little bit vague, but hopefully I gave you some information.

47:59

Oh, I love that reflection. I had a little vision of you being on the kind of analogy of a kind of shiny sailboat, like, you know, the sea wind in your hair, just when you’re in the right place and with the right company, you can kind of surrender into the process. And that, in and out of itself, is a really beautiful thing. And you know, when we think about the theme of success, like success is how you experience every day, and when I look at you, I see a woman who is living into her vision of success, and that’s really beautiful to witness. Thank you so much for anyone who’s listening and wants to learn more about you. Where are the best channels to find you?

48:34

And I always say I’d be delighted to connect with people on social media. So the two platforms that I’m on are Instagram and LinkedIn, and my handle is, literally, I am Suman Randhawa, so the whole thing together, and I’m on Tiktok, but try not to find me there, please. So relatable. Yeah, don’t look for me there. Don’t look for me though. You don’t need to follow me. It’s good. So yeah, where can they find that I have? Yeah, so it’s called, thank you for inviting me to share that. It’s called more heartless hustle. In fact, you could probably see it behind me, but it’s a bit crazy. It’s gorgeous to hold it up, but I’m just going to show yeah. I mean, you obviously love green as well. Polly’s got a green background for anyone who’s listening on audio. And my book is green. So yes, more heartless hustle, ethical sales for your small business, available online Amazon, and Jeff Bezos pockets is the main place where you can you can go and get it amazing. Thank you so much for everything you shared today. I’m so welcome to hear this. Thanks for having me. Polly.

49:36

Wow. Well, if you’re anything like me, you’re probably feeling a little emotional, a lot inspired, maybe even rethinking a few of those five year goals. Suman reminded me that sometimes the biggest wins come when we let go of the script and lean into the nudges, the mess and the magic. If you loved today’s episode, all the links to Suman’s Instagram and LinkedIn account, and, most importantly, to her book, more heart. To bless hustle. Are all in the show notes, so you can go and connect with Zoom and there. And as always, if this episode hit home, please send it to your favorite business buddy or share it on socials. The more we normalize this kind of growth, the better it is for all of us lean into the magic. So until next time, stay cushy, stay bold, stay kind, and trust the detour you might just end up somewhere better than you planned. I’ll be in your ears next week.