Welcome to Make More Money Without Selling Your Soul. The podcast for bold entrepreneurs ready to simplify scale and reclaim their time. I’m Polly Lavarello, Evergreen scaling strategist and cushy business pioneer. Join me and my occasional guests as we explore the themes of wealth, selling and well-being, because building a business that works for you changes everything. Let’s dive in.

00:39 

Hello, and welcome to the show. Make yourself a cup of tea, get yourself cozy, ’cause for 10 minutes I would like your attention to talk about a really important conversation because I think chances are somewhere in your body, in your mind, you are still apologizing for selling in whatever guise that might look like.

00:53

It might be through the lack of times you make invitations in your emails or the lack of emails you’re sending in the first place. It might be through the lack of proactive selling in your stories, even though your warmest people are hanging out there. It might be through not banging the drum about an upcoming workshop or training. Somewhere you are hiding away with a belief that being salesy is being pushy, being salesy is being unethical. But, I mean, obviously the irony is, is you’d never find any other kind of business that would take the same approach. You would never get investment from one of those dragons if you said, “Yeah, we’re gonna have a marketing department.

01:32

We’re gonna have a delivery department. Sales department? Oh no, w- we’re s- we’re, we’re sc- we’re not doing that. Don’t be silly.” That wouldn’t happen, would it? Sales are intrinsic to the success and longevity of your business, so they really matter. And this is a bit of a personal one, as is always the case with these kind of episodes, because some of you might think, “Polly, you’ve been at this game six years. You must know what you’re doing by now,” particularly since I have supported, like I say, multi six-figure launches, seven figures in evergreen sales. Marketing and sales, kind of my bag in some ways, and certainly has become more of my thing over the years. Definitely three years into my business I invested in learning more about sales ’cause I did not believe it to be my strong point.

02:17

I knew I was good at marketing, terrified of sales. So, you know, if you’ve listened to previous episodes, you know I’ve talked about, you know, visibility as an introvert and all of these pieces. So all of that kind of stuff kind of went hand in hand, right? But something happened to me last week that supported me to break the habit of o- yeah, over six years in business and something that’s helped me improve something I’ve been doing in my webinar, and I’ve probably run about 50 webinars now. And it’s amazing, isn’t it, how one tiny little thing can totally just make the biggest difference to your business and your outcomes That you didn’t even have to pay for in some scenarios. I mean, I’m obviously hoping through listening to this episode that this will do the same for you. So this is what I wish I didn’t have to wait six years for.

03:11

This is what I wish I didn’t have to run 50 webinars before this message landed so vibrantly clearly for me. So this is why I was like, right, this is, this is what I’m recording today. You know, doors are open to the Everyday Sales Accelerator, the next cohort starting in October, and I could be doing something obviously promotional in that regard, but this felt really present. This was so front of mind, and I was like, no, my girls, my men, they need to hear this. My people, they need to hear this. So this, this is what happened I, because I support people to develop high-converting webinars and workshops and masterclasses, whatever you wanna call them, trainings, I don’t watch them very often anymore.

03:53

Also, I think it’s one of those things, if you are an established business owner, quite often, you know, I’m not looking to go and to join groups or big masterminds anymore. So I don’t tend to take time out to watch workshops and masterclasses. If I’m interested in a personal brand, I tend to go through their content, through their website, and DM them directly. I don’t necessarily feel the need to listen to them for an hour. I tend to do that through listening to a podcast or reading their book or watching some of their reels. Um, and I’m partly sharing this because that’s important for you to know too, that, you know, if a lot of your high-ticket clients aren’t coming to your workshop, that’s also because that’s how a lot of high– uh, that’s how a lot of people who are ready to invest premium also operate, right?

04:36

It’s not just me. I see this in my clients as well. Most my clients come to me off the back of like listening to a few podcast episodes and say, “I need to work with you one-to-one,” right? Um, but that’s, that’s a little tangent I’ve gone off on there, because here’s the point. I haven’t watched a webinar, aside from my clients’ webinars where I’ve needed to review them and help them refine them and get them, you know, converting better or, you know, help them understand what they need to do to it to make it evergreen, et cetera. I don’t choose to watch them otherwise. However, however, I s- I was served an ad about two weeks ago. My perimenopausal brain was in overdrive. I was ruminating on things that weren’t helpful. And very helpfully, it came up with an ad that spoke just perfectly to what my particular situation was in that moment.

05:22

And it had the wonderful face of the most lovely Gabor Maté. I mean, I just adore that man. So his fa- his face popped up and, and the words spoke truly to me, and it said, “Come along and join our masterclass.” And then when I clicked on, I could see Alain de Botton was speaking and a bunch of other people I’m curious about or I’ve heard are brilliant, like Marisa Peer, who I don’t know very much about, but I’ve heard she’s brilliant. So I was like, “You know what? I’m signing up to this, and I’m gonna make time for this.” It was 6:00 PM in the evening. I told my husband, I was like, “I’m having dinner with the kids, and then I’m gonna stick this on. It’ll be on in the living room. And it’s only an hour,” because that’s how it was advertised.

05:58

“Only an hour and, you know, I’m just gonna do some embroidery, and if the kids wanna pop in, pop out, whatever they can be. But I’m not gonna hide away in my room and do this.” Like, I feel like the kids are at an age, at the age of 10 and 12, where they can be around, you know, me doing something selfish and for me. And also because these are good conversations to be listening into, right? It’s kind of sharing a side of my life that they often don’t hear or see because it’s usually Something I listen as a podcast or as a book. Anyway, that’s by the by. The main point is 6:00, my laptop was out in the living room on the sofa.

06:29

I had my embroidery in hand, listening to the wonderful Gabor Mate talking about one element of healing, right? Something to… I can’t even remember, to be honest, what he was talking about. But I remember just finding it really fascinating, really interesting, him dropping various little things. I think a lot of it was relating to relationships and the relationships we choose, and it, it being a reflection of how healed we are, et cetera. So I was really enjoying his little insights. There’s always one little thing, right, when you’re listening to someone which you’re like, “I’ve heard that before, heard that before. I have not heard that before. That is brilliant.” And I, you know, had, had a couple of those moments, which was what you want, right?

07:05

But that’s not the interesting bit. The interesting bit is my husband was looking forward to, you know, we’ve been watching Ludwig Moment for Ludwig. Brilliant, right? You know, this is why I wish I had a studio who could be clapping going, “Ludwig’s freaking awesome.” But we’re not there, right? So, but yeah, if you’ve not watched Ludwig, side note, go watch Ludwig. Uh, but he wanted to watch that. Last episodes had dropped, and he was patiently waiting on me. I was still squirreling away, doing my little Christmas embroidery because I like to get ahead. And, and it came to a close with Gabor. Obviously he’s brilliant. Obviously his time is valuable. I mean, he’s, he’s retired.

07:38

So he left after an hour, and the host carried on and he invited on some people, well, after doing their pitch. So Gabor actually pitched the offer at the end. He kind of said, “Here’s what we’re inviting you into. Here’s why we’re running these sessions.” And that took a few moments. And then I think they spent, I don’t know if it was another hour and a half or two hours. I feel like it went on for at least two and a half hours, the whole thing, maybe three, with people sharing their experience having done Heal. And again, really interesting. I actually found it really fascinating to hear all their individual stories and what it meant to them. Of course, my very patient husband was like, “Uh, is there a point?

08:19

Can I listen now?” And what was interesting is as they were talking, and obviously people had signed up for Gabor, they hadn’t signed up to listen to various people sharing their stories. And so I’d noticed at the very beginning how many thousands of us had all signed up for this live stream essentially. It was being live streamed on YouTube, so you could see the thousands of people. You could see the chat kicking off. And you could see, once Gabor had left, that gradually people were dropping off, probably with impatient husbands also wanting to watch Ludwig or similar. Or simply recognizing, “I’m not ready to invest right now.

08:53

I’m leaving now.” And what was interesting about this is that they were running five days of masterclasses back to back with different people there. And so this wasn’t just like a, you know, like let’s get this all in because we’re doing this once. They were doing this every single night. I did actually tune into another one on the second night, which was again, brilliant. Different person. Can’t remember what… I think it was Tob Huberman. I don’t, I don’t know who it was, but it was great. And again, another hour, I think, at least, of people sharing their experiences. I think, again, on average they were like three hours long Forgive me if I’m incorrect. But definitely t- at least an hour of these people talking.

09:24

Now, why am I sharing this with you, you might ask. I’m sharing this with you because in that moment I recognized two things in this. One, if you are interested in what someone’s offering, it is an act of service to go to this level of detail. At no point did I feel offended. I actually felt like they were being really thorough by bringing in a broad scope of different people, their own individual experiences, and sharing what it was like for them, asking questions that allowed people to get a real sense of what it’s like to be inside this container, which by the way, I’m not joining.

10:02

At this stage it was more like market research and just interest. But it was– Yeah, and also ’cause as I mentioned earlier, I do not do big vibrant communities. Too much for this neurodiverse brain. It was really interesting to kinda see that. I was really interested to hear their experience. At no point did I feel like, oh, this is really icky, because there was no urgency tactics, there were no shame tactics. They were just being incredibly thorough The other thing I noticed, so that was one thing I noticed. One, it was an act of service. They were being thorough. It felt massively within integrity to take the time to really help people understand and make a measured, balanced decision about whether this w- was for them without any silly si- I mean, they did have some urgency in terms of like, while we’re running these masterclasses, you can get 50% off, which is obviously is a huge incentive for people to join.

10:52

Um, but equally, I felt like nervous system-wise, allowing a week for people to st- a- and allowing days worth of like, of these workshops to attend to make a balanced decision as to whether it’s for you, is a really ethical way to go about it, giving them as much information as possible so they can make a balanced decision, right? But the second thing was, I could see that people were dropping off in their droves as it continued because, you know, it, it was quite long. Um, and there were still thousand- like, in terms of the people there, I would say at least a fifth to maybe a quarter were still on there, still interested, still listening.

11:31

And you can imagine for every additional minute that someone’s on there, the likelihood of them converting is that much higher, right? They were still on there, and at no point did the energy shift in the host or the person. At no point was there an apology. At no point was there, “This was meant to be an hour long. This has actually gone on for three hours.” Because obviously they always planned it to be that way. And I guess if you were doing it by the book, there was an hour of Gabor, it’s just they didn’t advertise the fact there was gonna then be a following on another hour to two hours of promotion on the other side of that.

12:04

And ultimately, people always had the choice to decide to leave, and they didn’t need to be babied into being told, “You can leave.” And had they said, “Sorry, we’re, we’re gonna run over,” or, “Sorry, we’re taking up so much time,” that apology would’ve kind of taken away or, or planted a seed of doubt in me as to why I was even there in the first place, or would’ve kind of created a resentment in me that didn’t even need to be there. So- Those are two really valuable things that came from watching. I, I, I walked away from it thinking, moving forward, do not look at the number of people in the chat when you start pitching at the end of your workshop. Because of course it feels a little bit stingy when you’ve just given loads of value, when you’ve just connected with a room full of people, and then you start to see them leave.

12:54

And ultimately, it’s a numbers game, particularly if you’re, you’re– if you’re, you know, running ads. These people have never met you before, and, you know, if it’s not for them right now, there could be a variety of reasons. They could have another call that they need to get to. They may have a personal emergency. It might not even be anything to do with your offer. In fact, I’ve very, very regularly had people reach out to me and say, “I had to jump off before the end, but can you send me the replay because I want to see it?” Which again, actually is a reminder as to how people do want to see the pitch and see it through to conclusion.

13:24

So first, it’s kind of recognizing do not give your energy away or worry too much about who is on and who isn’t on. Be grateful for those who are there, and make sure you nurture and look after those people. And ensure for those people who are interested that you are delivering that act of service by being thorough with your pitch and sharing everything. And as I was thinking about wanting to share this with you, something came up for me in my mind. I was recognizing how increasingly in the online space we hear things like, you know, particularly since the invention of AI, I swear AI almost encourages you to say, “I’m gonna be giving you a no-fluff webinar or masterclass or training, and, you know, no pitches.”

14:04

And I find that to be so disingenuous, because there is no such thing as a free lunch. If you are giving away a free training, there is absolutely no scenario in which you are not somehow selling in that you will probably be promoting your methodology, you will probably be referencing case studies, you know, as to, you know, to kind of validate that your methodology works. You’ll be speaking about your authority so people know that they can trust you, and you’ll likely be referencing the, the modality as to which people can work with you, um, so that people understand where they can go next. Because if you didn’t, that would kind of be like inviting someone over for dinner, showing them a table full of delicious delicacies, and then be like, “Okay, so you’ve seen it all.

14:49

Go home and try and make it yourself.” And they’ll be like, “What? What? So we’re not even getting to have any of this, and you’re not gonna tell us how to make it? Uh, or you’re just gonna tell us to, like, try and figure it out when we get home?” Like, that would be gutting, right? For the person who wants a next step, allow that to be an invitation. And recently I shared with a client who was feeling anxious about this, I said, “Just make it clear from the beginning. Say, ‘I will be sharing an invitation with you at the end of today’s session.'” And you don’t even need to say, “If you don’t want to be here, you don’t have to stay,” because they’re adults.

15:19

They get to make that decision. You’re almost planting that as a concept for them if you say it in the first place. Like, if they choose to not be there, they can leave. But the m- important piece here is that the person who is excited by everything they’ve heard you say, they want to know what happens next. And essentially, what I learned from this is, it’s not that I’ve never not pitched at the end of my webinars and masterclasses, et cetera, or free trainings. I always pretty much have. I’ve very rarely done a workshop just for the sake of doing a workshop. I kind of learned very quickly that my, um, conventional webinar, um, slide approach works most effectively at giving value and converting into sales.

16:02

But what I did recognize is that very often, particularly ’cause I tend to run over an hour, I start to think, “Oh my goodness, I’m over an hour. People have got what they’ve wanted from what I’ve just shared. I want time to answer their questions, so I’m just gonna rush through this bit so that they can look at the sales page in their own time, or we can have a separate conversation. Hopefully they like me by now and they’ll have enough of a sense as to who I am and what I do, and that will be enough to move forward.” And all of that was just stories to help keep me safe from RSD and to help keep me safe from, yeah, that, that, that fear of kind of upsetting anyone. I guess same thing as RSD really.

16:48

I’m just repeating myself here. But After watching how they could pitch for an hour and a half, I was like, “Polly, you totally have 10 minutes.” And actually, I’m really proud of the Everyday Sales Accelerator. I’m really proud. It’s been in existence now for over three years. I’m proud of my clients’ results. I’m proud of how I’ve designed it. I’m proud of how I maintain it. I’m proud of how I show up for my clients. Why wouldn’t I want to give it, you know, a good 10 minutes in the sun? And also just ensure that if someone is making a decision about what to invest in, that I’m giving them as much of a full 360 as to what that is to make it an easy decision for them to either say yes or no.

17:31

Because nobody wants to be– Like, there’s nothing worse than finishing a workshop and someone’s like, “Oh, I just don’t know what to do.” In the ideal world, we want it to be that by the time someone books a call with you, they’re very confident about why they’re booking that call, they’re very confident about what you’re selling, and they’re just wanting to understand a couple of logistical things before they decide to come in, right? And so yeah, if you wanna see that in action, you can still get the replay of my workshop. It’s gonna stop being available by Monday ’cause that’s when the early bird also expires. So I have extended it. I was saying it’d be available for 48 hours, but due to the demand and people continuously popping up in my DMs asking to see this training so that they can decide what kind of support they’re getting and what will most likely be your most lucrative quarter, I have kept it open.

18:20

So yes, the link to the replay, well, it’s a link to an opt-in to get the replay, is in the show notes. So please dive into that. If you want to see what I believe to be a masterclass in action that so far appears to be one of my most high-converting ones. So if you’re just curious to see what it looks like to do one that converts well, check it out. If you’re curious to learn more about the Everyday Sales Accelerator, check it out. And of course, as always, if you wanna touch base with me about any of these things, just reach out to me, Instagram, @pollyleverelo. So I hope you listened to today’s episode and are feeling more confident about recognizing sales is an act of service.

18:59

Why would you invite somebody to a table full of goodies and then be like, “Go home. Go figure it out yourself”? Of course, you’d want to show them the next steps, um, and invite them in rather than leave them on your doorstep. And for those who are more comfortable on the doorstep, that is absolutely their prerogative. That’s absolutely fine. Equally, it’s not for you to kind of mother them or baby them or protect them and their feelings. Like- As long as you’re giving them the option to do that, then they’re, they’re, they’re … You know, ultimately, I guess my … what I’m saying here is put your energy on those who are interested.

19:36

I think sometimes we’re so often trying to protect those who aren’t ready, those who aren’t able to invest, those who don’t like being sold to, that we’re not actually really zoning in on the people who actually really want to be sold to, who are excited to learn more. And in doing so, we are inadvertently turning those people away because that lack of conviction, that lack of commitment to what it is you’re sharing with them reads as a lack of confidence, and why would people choose to invest in something that you are displaying a lack of confidence around?

20:07

So go own your pitch, go own your sales. And if you haven’t been making invitations today, this is my invitation to you to go make another one. All right. I’ll be in your ears next week talking more about … Well, we’re gonna talk about AI. So I’ll be in your ears next week talking specifically about AI and how you can use it as a wellness practitioner. I’ll be in your ears then.