00:00

Welcome to Make More Money without Selling Your Soul with me Polly Lavarello, evergreen marketing expert. This podcast is for you if you are an online entrepreneur who is looking to simplify their business to scale.  On this podcast you can expect to hear regular talk about wealth, about selling and about wellbeing. Because I believe these three core fundamental things are pivotal to your growth moving forward.

00:44

Welcome to make more money without selling your soul.  Today, I’m so excited to have my very first guest on the show. Debbie Edwards. Debbie is an entrepreneur, speaker, investor and high performance and leadership coach working globally with entrepreneurs, CEOs and senior executives. With over 30 years experience working in challenging sectors, including the military, Debbie has years of experience in growth, strategy and cultural change working with teams and individuals on strategic performance through gentle leadership. Since leaving this world behind and experiencing a personal trauma, she has developed a body of work around the liberation of human beings in the workplace. First is the founder of ed tech startup F disruptors a tech platform designed to increase diversity in tech. And now as a high performance and leadership coach, enabling entrepreneurs and professionals to create the life and work that they want through the powerful gateways of deep self love, and neuroscience. I’m so excited that you are joining me for this episode, because Debbie is going to be lifting the lid on how self love can change the way you show up as a leader. Now, if you are listening to this and thinking, Oh, this sounds a bit fluffy, I’m not convinced. Well, stay tuned, because I felt the same way to find me entirely honest, as I share with Debbie in this interview, and I had my mind changed. And I think yours will be too by the time you finish listening to this episode. Welcome, Debbie. I am so excited to be talking with you today. So Debbie Edwards, obviously has already been introduced. But Debbie is also alongside everything I just shared, one of my clients and one of those clients that has probably taught me as much as I’ve shared with her and introduced me to something that if I’m being entirely honest, I probably would have previously scoffed at, which was self love. In fact, I remember the first time Debbie shared what she wanted to do. And I had to be very still with myself because I had one of those moments of curiosity and intrigue, and maybe a slight tinge of disbelief, but maybe discomfort. I wasn’t sure I really understood what Debbie was sharing. But since you’ve been in my Well, Debbie, boy have you blown things open for me and I have never seen things the same again. Would you like to talk more about that moment when you realised what you are here to do?

03:19

Yeah, and and thank you so much for having me on. Especially as it is a very polarising topic which you would never think that when you say to people, Hey, how would you like to be really successful in your work and fall deeply in love with yourself that people would actually want to check things that they’re screaming at me, you know, it’s it’s really polarising still. But, you know, my gateway to deep self love, and my ongoing practice of deep self love did not come from suddenly working out, you know how to have more bubbles and bath bombs in my life. It was actually through some of the gnarliest most challenging times in my life when my father had just passed away. And I went through a period of really resisting feeling that grief. And then I had this real moment when my body decided to take over for me. And the biggest realisation was that the thing I miss the most about him was how much he loved me, and how unconditional that was. And then I remember sitting in the discomfort of that and this voice, whether it was from within or whether it was from him or whatever. This voice just said, Well, you’re gonna have to start loving yourself like that. This is this is a you know, because I didn’t have to do anything for my dad to love me so deeply. I literally would walk into a room and I will Feel the Love so viscerally. I didn’t have to question myself, I didn’t have to judge myself, I didn’t have to mould myself, I did not have to do anything other than just show up and stand next to him to elicit the biggest of smiles, the deepest of laughs The most, you the shift in his energy, just because he clapped eyes on me, always made me feel deeply loved. And when I lost that, I felt like I lost, actually more than just my dad. And so that was when I began a period of building through my grief, and seeing what loving myself deeply could look like, unconditionally, all of me. And that’s taken me six and a half years, I don’t consider that my journey has stopped. This is a lifetime practice. And that’s, that’s something that I think has been very freeing for me is that, like you said, right at the start that you decided, even within your own body, and the discomfort that you felt when you heard that this was possible for you, you decided just to bring curiosity in. And that’s really all we need. When we start to hear new concepts like this, is we need just to open our hearts a bit, because, truthfully, that’s what it’s all about. But what’s happened in this world that we currently live in that love when we talk about strategy and business and our work and rising and taking bold moves. Love has always been off the table. And my work is to integrate the two, my strategic experience and my deep self love practice. Because when you combined combine those, it’s a magic.

07:00

I mean, I just love that you gave that example about your dad, because everything you said was so touching, but also immediately, it made me think of when I lost my grandmother and having very, very similar feelings. I remember always working to justify how proud she was of me, rather than the other way around. And not that she required that of me, but in my head feeling like that is what I needed to do. Because nobody else had that unconditional reverence for who I was as a human being. And when I lost her, I remember having a similar moment where I recognised I no longer have that cheerleader in my corner anymore. Yeah, I need to do that for myself. And I think that’s really valuable for anyone listening who has any kind of sceptical feelings around this, because I think a lot of people have experienced a loss like that, unfortunately, a lot of people will see how that will impact them. You know, you often see people divorcing after they’ve lost, you know, a parent or, you know, changing careers or buying that sports car. So it does impact us. And I think a lot of people are aware of it on a personal level. But what does it look like in business, when you’re not loving yourself? First,

08:12

I always like to speak from my own experience, so that people can just see themselves or hear themselves in my story. So for me, there’s sort of my life, I feel as I was before I lost my dad, and after I lost my dad. So before, this is one of the areas that I tackle first with people and it, it’s something that I always have to bring a caveat into. Because when we talk about deep self love practice, and we talk about bringing on into your world, what actually has to happen first is you taking a really hard look into all of the spaces where love is actually absent, rather than present. You know, and I actually call it that this is the presence of absence. And when you start to look at that it can bring up so many different feelings, sadness, grief loss, for all of the times when you suddenly see so starkly, how much you didn’t love yourself in past versions of you. Because that’s who we are. We’re all Russian dolls, aren’t we really, there’s so many different versions of me. And if I go back through all of the versions, in my Russian doll, there are so many that were I was not showing any kind of love. And I looked back on that and think, How can I actually say that I wasn’t showing myself any kind of love. But the truth is, now that I’ve actually been doing it differently, I realised that there wasn’t much there. You know, I wasn’t taking care of my body. I was letting my mind tell me so many different lies about myself and feeling not enough and justifying my presence, especially in work. There was no connection To my body and even understanding that in order to rise throughout my career, then actually my body had needs that needed to be met, you know, even basic stuff, basic stuff. And I still see this now in my work. And when I say basic, I really mean it. You know, some people that I work with that will say, have another tie, I haven’t had a chance to go the toilet today. And you’re just like, This is not even on the scale of loving ourselves. Yet this part is just fundamental, basic human rights. To just give yourself a break, give yourself a glass of water, give yourself some food during the lunch hour, give yourself some fuel at the end of the day, whether it’s a walk or going to the gym, or sitting down and connecting with people. We have created workplaces especially. And even within our businesses, we’ve created environments where we think that all of those things can wait, whether it’s the basics operate up to the way that I operate now. So So for me, I was the original person. And I always hold my hands up when I coach because I think it’s important for people to know that I was the OG of really not loving yourself very deeply. What that meant, for me, that was that everything felt like a struggle, everything. And my way to overcome that was to just think, Well, I must need to do more than let’s add some more things in that will demonstrate that I’m worthy of being here up to the job, ready for the job capable of the job, you know, there was, there was just always room for more. What that really meant was that I was just increasing my levels of not needing anything for myself. So I was like,

12:00

external validation, aren’t you? Yeah, from the doing more, you’ll have more evidence as to how worthy you are, and how worthy you are of love.

12:08

Yeah, yeah. And, and because we don’t bring our hearts into our work, we’re not even realising that. That’s the crux of it, you know, that, that actually, we’re proving proving our worthiness, or we’re using different tools, like being productive and being busy to prove our worthiness and all of those things, sadly, only affect you and your body. You know, I think I’ve said it recently in our mastermind, that, if you think it’s you that’s building your work and your business, you’re wrong. Your body is building your work and your business. And to not recognise that means that there’s a level of self neglect, that we really need to address. Because once you do, then bring love into your world. You can’t believe how different you feel. And you start to get, as I call it high on your own supply. It’s addictive, loving yourself deeply. Because the stark difference from where you were to where you then can see yourself going is the transformation is huge.

13:12

Yeah, no, I mean, that makes so much sense to me. And I know that when I became self employed, I think I’m also one of those urges. And I remember, you know, not giving myself lunch breaks and taking days off on a Friday occasionally, because I was like, that’s what CEOs do. But feeling incredibly guilty, my stomach being and not looking at my phone every so often. And genuinely, every time a new email would come into my inbox, my assumption would be, oh, God, what does somebody need? Who am I letting down, and I would even do things like not share on social media, that I wasn’t at my desk, almost like I worked in a corporate job. Because I was fearful that if someone saw me not working and enjoying myself, they would see me as less professional or less, you know, dedicated to supporting them. And so I mean, thank God that didn’t go on for very long, because I essentially almost burnt myself out really. And I that was that was the eye opening moment that forced me to change. And now life looks really different. But I mean, I find it interesting as well, because I also remember from working in corporate places, you know, there’ll be, there’ll be people who were just always stressed, if there wasn’t something to be stressed about, they’d find a way to be stressed and anxious people that if they weren’t, if there’s nothing to be anxious about, they’d find a way to be anxious. And all of those things are also kind of in my mind, symptomatic of what we like to say when we’re not leading with love for ourselves and where we are putting too much importance on what’s around us rather than what’s inside us. And I think was been eye opening for me and my own experience is the deeper I love myself and trust myself, which I think the two very much go hand in hand. It’s amazing how the world just kind of rearranges around You know your relationship sunny look a lot healthier, you have better and more honest and better communication with your children. And similarly, the clients I attract now, just a whole other level.

15:13

Yeah, obviously for me, there was a giant circuit breaker in my life with my dad, he had a terminal diagnosis that sadly, only lasted a week. So I had eight weeks to sort of try and care for him and say goodbye to him at the same time. But I also was running a tech startup. So you know, we got the diagnosis two days before I launched my tech startup. And I remember doing that juggle of speaking to investors getting the website live, and speaking to other contacts. And at one point, I remember being on the train going to London, I’d been asked to speak at the House of Lords. And I got there and did the jazz hands bit and stood on the stage and unlocked, like the most put together, you know, startup founder that there ever was, and then cried all the way back to Liverpool from Euston because just because I spent the day away from him at that point was far too painful. And I remember thinking, I’ll never do this, again, I will never do this, again, I will never deprioritize what I need in any given moment, because I never know when I’ll get that time back, you know, yeah, so it’s created a sense of agency, like you say, I’m moved through my life differently. The people that I work with, say that a lot, they just say, I feel like I’m even walking differently, I just my place in the world doesn’t feel the same, you know, and that’s just them, suddenly realising that they have they have agency over themselves all day, every day in any given moment. And many of them have come through for, you know, working with me for business or, or for accelerating in their careers. And quite often, what they find is that the real ripples of their deep self love, go into how they parent that go into how they have their relationships. You know, one of my amazing clients came in and said she was two days away from starting divorce proceedings when she started with me. And just three days afterwards, she made a decision to stay three weeks in, and they went out on a date night, and we’re holding hands under the table and talking to each other like they never had in a long time. And that’s because the other beautiful side effect of loving yourself more deeply, is that your capacity to engage differently with those around you whether in work or at home, also transforms. You know, people people have talked to me about how the conversations with children are very different now, how they have conversations with their own children about well, how are you loving yourself deeply? How could we help with that? You know, and so to hear that, children as young as 710, and then some of the tricky years where loving yourself would be the worst thing to be, you know, to, for someone to say when you’re a teenager? Oh, you really love yourself? It’s like, Oh, my God, no, don’t look at me being humble over here. Some of their teenagers really, really responded to them having that level of conversation. And for quite a few of them, especially boys, you know that they are having the most beautiful conversation with their young men who also probably feel I can’t demonstrate that I’m showing myself any love. I’ve got to toughen this out and be strong, you know. So the ripples of this work is, is well, it can’t really be be spoken about in words, you just have to listen to the stories. And, you know, I’m lucky that there’s lots of them. But I don’t think it’s what people expect when they first come in and they think, right, I really want to build my business. You know, I want to work, Debbie, because I know she’s a strategist. But what they’ve never realised is probably all of that stuff at home. And all of the challenges where love is absent at the moment will be absolutely having an impact on the capacity energetically. They feel they’ve got for growth. Hmm. You know, it’s it’s, it’s different difference what they expect. But what I say to them is that all of it needs love, all of it.

19:47

And I think what’s really exciting about what you do is I just think it’s such a really beautiful invitation to explore how you can love yourself more deeply. You know, as I shared, I’ve been on my own journey, but I Always know there’s opportunities, more depth, there’s always that question at the back of my mind. In fact, one of the things I journal on most regularly is, you know, what does the most loving version of myself give myself today. And sometimes it can be a walk and flowers. Other times, it’s about, you know, how I show up to a project where perhaps I’m feeling impostor syndrome. But the idea of focusing on that, and I love that you reference strategy, because I think it’s a lot of, you know, it’s very, it’s very kind of p, we, I don’t know, programmed in us to look for solutions and roadmaps and strategies and accountability and how to, but the most valuable thing you can give somebody is the ability to trust themselves and love themselves. Because what’s incredible, like you’re giving them a kind of, you’re giving them access to a world where they need less of that moving forward, because they can, they can find they can find all those untapped resources already within themselves. Because ultimately, we all have the wisdom deep down inside. And many well, more wisdom than we recognise anyway, to move forward. Because often, if there’s resistance to things, a lot of the time it’s valid, or there’s just a lack of love or trust in ourselves to move forward. And so I imagine there are a lot of strategists out there who can’t actually support clients to move forward, because they haven’t got those strong foundations of deep self love. So the fact that you have both. It’s an absolute winner. I think it’s incredible.

21:27

It’s a weird and wonderful combination, and one that I never envisaged I would end up with, but it’s, I think it’s the next level of modern leadership. I really do.

21:41

I agree, because I think what’s interesting is that there’s been a lot of emphasis around mindset over the last few years. And, and of course, there’s some talk around energetics and manifestation etc. And, and I guess, more awareness now, around Cymatics, to or that might just be my little echo chamber. And I think this is where deep self love comes in. And it’s so interesting to me, because one of the things I hear very often is, it’s not enough to have the strategy if your mind isn’t onboard, you’re not going to do it. But actually, as you’ve highlighted, it’s not the mind is the body is the body that needs to be on board and for the body to feel safe. You know, one of the big components of that is, is loving yourself, that gives you that sense of safety. Yeah, so I’m so excited for you, Debbie, and what comes next? I mean, what does it look like to work with you? I know you’ve referenced working with clients, like how do you support them? What is the process of learning to love yourself more deeply?

22:38

It’s really simple. It’s really simple. You know, I have that signature question that I use with all of my clients, depending on where they are in their current journey. Because like I say, there has to be an honouring to this work that says, I’m just about to change my world here. So I need to make sure I have the capacity to do that the willingness that I’m open to trusting myself more, and then I’m also open to strategy looking very different, you know. So there’s, there’s a sort of pause point that we have to have, and that I have to have with a client where I, I sort of work with them for a little while and figure out, are you ready for this year because it transforms all of your world, like we’ve said, and then I let it be really simple than that. That’s the principles of love for me is that if it’s complex, then actually, it’s probably not going to work. We don’t ignore the minds. But what I definitely feel we need to shift from is thinking that everything that gets figured out in our heads, I think we are causing ourselves untold damage and upset sometimes by constantly thinking that the wisdom only exists up here, when really 90% of your strategy actually begins and is sustained in your heart space. So I use a really simple question. And it’s an anchoring question. And for a lot of my clients, I say you This is it for a month. So you can’t go up into your head and ask yourself 1000 questions a day, like you, you know, we treat our brains like we treat Google search. It’s, it’s ridiculous. It’s like, will it work? Should I do it? Will they sign will I grow? Is this working? Am I up to it? What do I need? What do I it’s just relentless, but it’s also so draining. So I say to them, I give them a circuit breaker question, which is how can I love myself even more deeply right now? And I say to them that set for 30 days now we work together on your strategy during that time and what you want to achieve Eve. But that question is the only one that you really allowed to answer. Even if other questions want to pop up, you use that question as a circuit breaker. Now, there’s a science to the question. It’s extremely simple. But there’s a science to it. So first of all, we are creating a connection with your brain that your brain loves, because you’ve asked it a question. That’s what it’s used to. So pattern recognition would say, Oh, good. She’s asking us another question. So how can I so the brain sparks up? But then you say, how can I love myself, and then your brain says, Oh, that’s a bit different. Now will really take notice to what you’ve created those just an opportunity in your mind that the you’re used to working with, to start to create a different, what I call a gateway to understanding so it’s like, a little circuit breaker goes in and starts to think, could this be a new neural pathway for me? So how can I love myself, your brains awake, then you say even more deeply, then the somatic starts to come in. Because when you say, how can I love myself even more deeply, every time you say the word deeply at the end of that, you are telling yourself on some level that you already love yourself. And that starts to reinforce really softly. So you don’t have to tell yourself that you love yourself. You just have to let the word deeply tell you that you love yourself. And then you are opening up the gateway to find out, what else could I do here? Then we say the words right now. Now, it’s so many of our clients. And so many of the businesses that I work with, one of the biggest challenges is the press present in your business every day be present in your life. And so when you add in the words, right now, it means that they have to stop and have a momentary connection to their body, and what the body wisdom wants to spit out for them, even without them knowing this will really appeal to their sort of unconscious awareness levels. But suddenly, your body will say we’d like this. Oh, and we’d like that. Oh, and you know, later on, I’d really feel like I like this. Before you know it, they have a suite of tools that I haven’t had to give them. So it’s not me being the coach saying, This is what you need. This is my process. This is how I’ve made six figures, whatever, there’s no blueprint, other than what is determined by their own body by using the heart connection to their brain, and their gut. And then having a full body response to what their needs are, in any given moment, on any given day, no matter what the circumstances are. They have a body and a suite of tools, that is then what I call a fingerprint approach, which is totally unique to them. And they will never lose that. Because of that fact,

28:08

I absolutely love this. And I think if anyone’s listening to this, the guilty of what I used to write a coach wants to call that to me intellectualising your well being. But if you’re one of those people, I remember, I was I would say things like, I know meditation is good for you. But I don’t have the time. Or you know, maybe I could do with some more therapy around that one area, but I’m not, you know, it’s maybe next year or next month or, you know, I know that eating well. Makes me feel better, but I’m gonna get some chocolate instead, I’m just all these things that I knew weren’t serving me. And things that help like that made me feel more anxious and not great. And then, to make matters worse, I would kind of beat myself up mentally. Because I’m like, How do I have this information, where I know what to eat, I know how to look after myself. And yet I’m not doing it. This is the work that you do that’s so powerful, because it’s helping you get away from that judgement, that shame, that self sabotage that kind of that one side of you that’s craving knowledge to live a healthier and better and fuller life. And then that other part of you that just keeps on throwing yourself back into old patterns. Because essentially, when we are being most loving to ourselves, you’re not you’re not forcing or you you’re not forcing it’s and actually you’re not judging, which is a really important piece, because we’re not always going to do the things that serve us best. I don’t know we’re not always going to eat our kind of green smoothie, we might want to a coffee and a croissant. It doesn’t matter when you’re doing it from a place of love. I think it’s impossible to do anything wrong when you’re doing it from a place of love. So, yeah, I’m, I mean, that’s just a tiny example. But here’s the thing if anyone’s listening and still not entirely convinced, which I think they should be by now because Debbie, you are the most beautifully embodied. version of the work that you do. Every time you come on our group coaching calls, everyone kind of talks about like a deep exhale they have when they listen to Debbie speaking, you have this very contagious calmness about you. But yeah, if anyone needed any kind of final like, Is this for me then that I would definitely say that would be an indicator because I definitely know how stuck I felt in that realm for a long time, I’d be that friend answering phone calls from from two other friends help trying to help them get your wedding you go for a swim or why don’t you do this, but not doing any of it for myself? Yeah, so. So it really is really revolutionary. And like you say, it sounds simple. And somebody might be listening to this now and thinking, Okay, I’m just going to, you know, repeat that affirmation. And that’s going to be that work that does it. But actually, there’s something very powerful about making that promise to yourself about committing to the journey with somebody who gets it and ideally, and, and was surrounded by others who were also on that same journey to, it’s very powerful. Would you like to share any more about what your group coaching container looks like?

31:12

So love Pioneer is is the, the most amazing programme that I’ve built, whilst we’ve been coaching together. And in all honesty, I’ve know it’s been inside my body for a long time, but I just for whatever reason, I couldn’t access it. And then I came into your programme. And and here’s a deep expression of love. I think that that you and I both had was the I was, you know, my health hasn’t been great at all. 2023 has been the strangest year for my health, and I wasn’t expecting it at all. And so I’ve really had to lean in to my practices, and I, I really wanted to work with you this year, I turned the year truthfully, not thinking I would work with anybody. And then suddenly I was like, I’ve got to work with Polly. That’s it, because I wanted to create a business and a life that that allowed me the freedom of expression, but also the freedom to do it from anywhere, not be constantly launching. So the minute I got the bit between my teeth, that’s what I’m like, I’m like, right, we’re doing it. And then my health took a bit of a turn. And I remember emailing you and saying, I don’t think I’m going to come in or maybe postpone it for another month. But I knew that there was also some sort of fear there because I just didn’t feel like a huddle, huddle all my ducks in a row, I felt messy coming in. And you sent me the most gorgeous email that just said, so come in soft. And the minute I read those words, I was like I’m in and I’m coming in soft. So you know, that principles strangely created the foundation. And as you know, I’ve been in it for six months. Now I literally every week I go, girl, something else has happened. So coming in soft, you know what strangely that allowance of myself softening is allowed love pioneer to come through. So love Pioneer is my new, latest amazing offer for visionary coaches, leaders and entrepreneurs to create a bold strategy that is fueled by deep self love. And it’s the it’s probably the embodiment of everything I’ve gone through in definitely the last seven years. But all of the places where love was absent in the previous years. And it’s really just to change the narrative around what people actually think it takes to develop a strategy that can see you building a big business if you want or a really high level career if you want. But it’s redefining what high performance growth and success can look like. And we do that all through the gateway of deep self love. And I am just so excited for who that might call in because I’ve had conversations just in the last few days that have made me realise that there’s a lot more curiosity around this now that maybe the timing is just really, really right. For some people. I spoke in a room of venture capitalists and on an X accelerator that I’m going to be supporting founders on. And the whole room just went silent when I spoke about it. And then just it was like a stampede of people wanting to talk to me about it. So even in those fields that that you would probably expect that we’d all sit around talking about strategy and tech stack and you know investment and VCs and All of that, that’s still present. And that’s still what I do, you know, work with people who are making multi multi millions. Sometimes I’m working with companies that are in the 25 million plus. But now the difference is, is that I’m not prepared to do any of it with any founders without that deep self love piece within the strategy, because that will elevate them in ways that they’ve never experienced. But it also guarantees sustainability and in the current world that we’re living in, nobody needs any more businesses that are like balls to the wall for three years. And then you see horrible stories of a founder or a coach or a leader that is totally burnt out. And it’s hard to move away from their business and let everything go, the world doesn’t actually need any more of those stories, there is a much bigger opportunity for us to have heart centred strategic high performing businesses that are actually good for the individual, and have one eye on the impact that they have in the world. Because that’s the other thing that people won’t expect. When you start to love yourself, your connection to the earth deepens as well. And suddenly, you have this deep understanding of why you are doing your business, why it connects to the world. And the impact suddenly gets bigger. But it feels doable. Because you know, you’re not going to let yourself be sacrificed for the sake of it.

36:37

Oh, Debbie, every time I hear you speak, I just my body kind of does everything is on like tingling. Because I can see festivals, I can see Coaching Academy, I can see like, there’s this reams of possibility, all based on this really solid and, you know, just incredible perspective as to what leadership and life gets to look like. I’m so excited for what comes next. And I’m so delighted to have you as the first guest on my podcast. And thank you so much for sharing your story. I’m just delighted that other people get to hear it too. Because, like I say, I think you’re a truly inspirational, individual. And I know that what we heard today is is a 10th of your story. You’ve got so many interesting stories to share. So, Debbie, where can people find you to kind of learn even more about you? Because like I say, there is so much to gain from being in Debbie’s world. So how can they find you?

37:39

Well come and find me on Instagram at underscore Debbie Edwards underscore, because I will be launching my new free masterclass over the next few days. And then the doors to love pioneer open in October. So if anything has landed for you today, and you felt yourself thinking that I need a bit of insight, you know, some people say, I need a bit of Debbie in my life, you know, they do. And I get that. And I think it’s just that this is a very much needed conversation. But also you can find me on LinkedIn because I’m finding that I’m having really interesting conversations over there because again, it’s a totally different platform. It’s much more professional. But I’m just letting myself be a bit free over the with this conversation. And I’m finding that it’s really really landing so you can find me over there Debbie Edwards, just search and connect with me. I would love to hear more about your stories as well because you’re right. This is a revolution and it’s it’s well overdue. Well

38:45

it is well overdue. Thank you, Debbie, thank you so much. The links to Debbie’s Instagram account is is in the show notes. And we’ll update it with the masterclass as and when that’s ready to thank you Debbie. That’s it.

38:58

Thank you I feel so privileged on your first ever guests. So yeah, thank you so much and thank you for being such a generous host I know that you know we’ve we’ve worked so lovely together. You know if there’s anybody out there thinking about joining because you’ve got something burning inside of you just just do it Come and join us in the group. Oh, thank you Debbie. I’ll slip you a tener later