00:00

Welcome to Make More Money without Selling Your Soul with me Polly Lavarello, evergreen marketing expert. This podcast is for you if you are an online entrepreneur who is looking to simplify their business to scale.  On this podcast you can expect to hear regular talk about wealth, about selling and about wellbeing. Because I believe these three core fundamental things are pivotal to your growth moving forward.

00:44

Hello, and welcome to make more money without selling your soul with myself Polly Lavarello, evergreen marketing expert and cushy business pioneer.

And today we have a guest on the show, we have the wonderful Erin Chamberlain. Erin is an editor and self-publishing mentor who has worked for traditional trade publishers for nearly 20 years. Bad books hurt her soul. She started out selling books in a bookshop and has worked across most areas of publishing, including editorial commissioning, production and sales. She is passionate about bringing ideas into the world and supporting authors to create books that will have an impact and change lives. She spends her time working one to one with authors and supporting them in her 12-week program published on purpose. She is the founder of the right now experiment, running six hours of writing accountability weekly, where she writes with you and is on hand to answer your writing and publishing questions. Born in Sydney, Australia and mum to three she loves to lift heavy weights and hates to run just like me. And for all i have programs and products and One to One services, you can check out Erin chamberlain.com. So, without further ado, we are going to be getting on to this conversation. I’m so excited to have Erin on the show. I invited her because I myself have been toying with the idea of writing my own book. Now I’ve been in online business for a while it feels like it could be the time to wrap up all these ideas and concepts I share with you within this podcast into something more tangible. And of course, when that idea came up for me, the first woman I thought of was Erin, she is fabulous. And as I started asking her questions over voice notes, I quickly recognise this isn’t a conversation to be had privately. This is one that we should be having on the podcast. Because if I’m thinking about writing a book, there’s a very high likelihood that at least one of you as a listener is thinking about this too. So get your ears around this, this is going to be a really eye opening conversation about whether you should be self-published or go the traditional route, whether now is the right time, what you need, like anything you need to know about getting a book out there into the wild you are going to learn about on this episode. Enjoy. Welcome Erin, I am so happy to have you on my show.

03:09

I’m super excited to be here. Thank you for having me.  Absolute pleasure. I mean, the whole reason this conversation came about was because I was chatting to you about when’s the right time to write a book. Am I the right person? Are there too many ideas out there already that are similar to mine. And as we were chatting, I was like, this is the perfect conversation to for this podcast to help anyone anyone else who may be thinking about writing a book because Erin is just fabulous. But before we get into all of that stuff, Erin books why?

03:45

Books why? Well, I’ve always I’ve always been my thing, I’ve got a I remember back to when I was in year eight, I was about 13 I did a project at school called how a book is made. So I’ve always been intent on books, I did my work experience at HarperCollins Publishers in Sydney. I my my part time job from school all the way through university was in a bookshop. So all before I even think in year 12 So that’s the same as A levels over here. I wrote letters to loads of publishing houses to ask what what I should do at university. I’ve been very single minded on this whole kind of book journey, helping people write books. Being in publishing and and I just love it I what I love about it is that I get to become an instant expert on whatever the topic is that I’m working on with with an author so I know all about arm knitting. I know all about if that’s the thing. Did you know you can knit things  I have that I’m missing Yeah. thing I know all of that are missing. I didn’t know that you could go to country fairs here in the UK. And they were like dancing tractors. I learned that from a children’s book that I worked on. All sorts of things. Fascinating. Yeah.  So you’ve worked with a variety of authors? Is there anything that that these authors have in common? Is there a particular type of author you’d like to work with?

05:25

So because now I predominantly work with business owners, who generally choose to self publish, I mean, if you can get a traditional publishing deal, absolutely go for it. There are all sorts of pros and cons around both sides of things. And it really is just what’s best for you. If you want to chat further about that, or have a question about that happy to answer. But, in general, I like to work with people who I can see a book fits into, like a book is going to make money for them. Essentially, I’m, I’m not somebody that helps people. Like a vanity press, I want to work with people who are gonna sell more than 12 copies of the book to their family and friends. And because it costs money to create a book, a lot of the detail that goes into the book is time for money. And there’s absolutely nothing you can do to speed up an editor reading every single word of your book that just takes as long as it takes. So when it comes down to it, you’re probably going to invest somewhere between five and 10,000 pounds, depending on how much support you want with book coaching and writing, and then how much you choose to invest in your cover us and that kind of thing. You can invest like 80 pounds in your cover art or you can invest I’ve had one author, invest us $1,000, in her cover art because she just fell in love with working in particular with a particular designer. So you know, if you’re going to be investing that amount of money, I want to help you see how your book is going to bring that money back plus more into your business. I don’t want just to take your money, just so that you have you know, three or four books sold at the end of it. Just yeah. I mean, that’s I mean, there’s nothing wrong with with writing a book that is for a small amount of people, but you just have to be aware that it’s going to cost you some money. And unless you’re Michelle Obama or you know, Prince Harry, with a massive, with a massive following already, you’re less likely to sell masses, the copies of a book about your own life story.

07:56

Yeah, and beyond money. I mean, I imagine it also takes up a lot of time, I think that’s one of the thoughts that intimidates me the most particularly knowing that I probably am ADHD. And so I can either be hyper focused, and only want to do that one thing, or, you know, really struggled to kind of sit down in small doses. So I mean, how much time does it on average? Take somebody to write a book.

08:22

Do you know how long it takes you to write 1000? Words? No. That’s usually what they get authors to kind of understand first, if you’re coming, if you’ve made an outline of your book, and you know, you know how your reader is, before they pick up your book, you know, the journey you want them to go on and how they’re going to be changed by the end of the time you get your book, and you’ve laid out your sort of your chapter outline. So you know how you’re going to get them from A to B, you know what is going to go in each chapter. So when you sit down, you’re not kind of going, I’ve got no idea what I’m going to write today. But today, I have 30 minutes to sit down and write my book. If you know what you’re going to write you. Usually we’ll probably get between five and 800 words done. I think across the course of an hour, I run writing accountability groups, and my fastest writers can do three and a half 1000 words in two hours. And my slowest ones, maybe 500 words, but it kind of depends on how practice they are. how inspired they are all that kind of thing. So let’s say you, on average will write 1000 words, let’s say 800 Words in each writing session. And you want to write a book that’s between 45,050 5000 words. Which strategy which are the words not Not so I get my calculator out at this point and 45,000 words divided by 856 hours.

10:09

Okay. Okay, so so you’re gonna hyperfocus it for a week?  Yeah, yeah, take yourself off some kind of Sonny’s, I mean, that’s always my vision, like, go somewhere beautiful sit on a lovely balcony, over some romantic square write my book. And it’s interesting because a book has been like somewhere in my mind for a while. And, and it’s interesting to work through some of my fears with you. Because some of my listeners may have similar ones. One of the first thoughts that comes to mind is that when I first started in online business, and when I first became interested in being an entrepreneur, which was years ago, really, if I think about it, there were a few very well known books, which were kind of borderline self development slash entrepreneurial books that were really, really famous and so 1000s and 1000s. And then some

11:00

of them have been around forever. Yeah. Highly Effective People. I think that was written in the 1930s. Yeah. You know, so some of them have been around forever, that you’re probably thinking about atomic habits, and all the other there was like a big business book explosion around 2011 or so it was like How to Make Friends and Influence People and the thinking get rich or whatever, by Napoleon Hill. And all those ones kind of jumped, I remember kind of being interested and just these books being kind of shoved in my direction saying, read this, read this. And, and so that’s kind of where it all began. And then in the last few years, I kind of noticed increasingly, more and more business owners. So it’s interesting, because I went from the objection of No, you have to really have made it you have to be like you say, some not Prince Harry, necessarily, but somebody who’s really established and maybe, you know, for example, Annie Ridout, who’s, you know, an author, but she’s also a journalist. So therefore, you know, if you’re a journalist, or if you have a big following, those things make sense to me that they would be in a good position to publish a book, then my mindset? Well, I my whole view of things kind of swung the entire opposite way that suddenly it feels like, nearly like, it seems to be everybody in their dog is writing a book and suddenly, I had the opposite.  Instagram, right? Yeah,  maybe kind of confirmation bias that you’re thinking about something and then suddenly, it feels like everyone’s doing it as well. You know, it could be that two commissioning editors are stalking people with big audiences on on Instagram. That’s, that’s what it is. That’s why everybody unless unless you’re somebody who’s a business owner, who’s working with a smaller press, like tactical inspiration publishing, for example, you if you got a big traditional publishing deal. You there’s a commissioning editor somewhere in a business Publishing House, who is looking at the people with the biggest audiences on Instagram and making a sales case for commissioning a book from them, because they think that they’ll sell copies. And that’s what traditional publishing is really, how much of a risk is a publishing house, willing to take on a first time author? Based on how many copies I think it will sell? So I’m not sure every man and his dog is but I think that most of the big names that we follow on Instagram, you know, the funny ones that house people, the cook the cooks, you know, they’ve all got publishing deals that house cleaners, they’ve all got publishing deals, because they’ve all got massive audiences.

13:46

Yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense. I, I guess the main thing is, is I mean, this is why I wanted to have the conversation with you, because it feels like where so many people are self publishing now, as well. And particularly, as business owners, you know, people have caught on that it’s a really fabulous way to kind of, I guess, nurture, and grow your following. And I guess you can tell me more about the advantages of having a book, but it made me realise that because it’s so accessible, and because so many people are doing it, it really, to me makes sense that you would find somebody like yourself, who knows how to do it in a way. I mean, even as you were just sharing about the whole thinking about how to structure a book and chapters and things like that, that is so beyond my brain, despite having read so many books, I have ideas and concepts, but the idea of like turning them into kind of appetisers and main courses and desserts of a book, like to me just feels so stretchy, but I do I totally trust that somebody like you would make that more accessible. But in a world where more people are self publishing more do you think is important to help your self published books stand out and like you say, be a book that sells and isn’t just a book that you’re kind of that you’re thrusting upon your existing clients and kind of get And your parents Dubai like, because obviously that’s my fear. Like if I remember thinking about what my biggest fear is a couple of like, you know, like diehard Polly lever la fans were like up by it maybe a few podcast listeners, but there’ll be like 50 sales and then absolute Tumbleweed. That’s my number. Like that’s the first fear. The second fear is, Will I have anything to say? And this is funny because I had the same fear with this podcast, I was like, Well, I have anything to say that other people aren’t saying already. And I’ve managed to get over that hump with my podcast. But the idea of putting it into a book feels way more permanent, you know, like, like you say, it’s this kind of asset that could be, you know, for that those books that are selling since the 1930s. If you get it right, it could be a book that people are still reading and years and years time. I mean, if it’s about online business, maybe not. certain concepts might have dated by then. But you know, it’s a it’s a, there’s something you put a lot of time and energy and investment into. So it’s something you want to work. So yeah. So those were two fears. We don’t need to address both at once. But the first one is, will it sell? The second fear is? Do I have anything different to say, that’s not already been said? What would you say to people who have those fears?

16:04

So what is your expectation of how many books you in you would expect to sell across the year, if you still publish? You know, what’s funny, I wouldn’t even know I wouldn’t know what is normal, I wouldn’t know. I obviously see people launching. So I see them doing the whole pre launch and getting people to buy it in advance to help it get up the charts and help it kind of get in front of people. I definitely hear what you were saying at the beginning of this conversation when you said ultimately, it’s about like, I mean, for me, the main premise would be just helping me make more sales within my business as a whole. So I would almost rather have less book sales, but for it to lead to people choosing to come and work with me, then have more book sales and have less happy thinking. She seems nice, but not wanting to work with me if you see what I mean.  Like, particular fear is that is the bit that’s underneath that particular fear, putting too much of what you work with clients with into a book so that the reader knows enough and therefore doesn’t need to come and work with you anymore. Because they’ve read your book. Is that part of that fear?

17:13

I’m not concerned about that, because I know it. Yeah, I definitely. I mean, I’m, even with this podcast, I’m very generous with my knowledge. And so that’s and I know, that’s only ever been a positive thing. So I don’t believe in that. I think the main My biggest concern, I guess is that there are various people with similar philosophies to me when it comes to business. So sometimes my fear is that while I would obviously say it a different way, because it’s me, and I’ll have my own angles, I’ll have my own stories, there is just a concern that there’s a lot of noise, and I don’t want to be another part of the noise, I’d want to be adding something unique and and also maybe a bit snobbery me because I do love books. And I do have certain books that I recommend to everyone. And yeah, maybe there’s a part of me being a bit of a perfectionist being like, I don’t just want to create any book, I want to create the book that people go to, and they’re like, Hey, this is how you create a cushy and I want cushy business to be a movement. I want people like you know, like my daughter goes to school already. So my mom has a cushy business and she wants me to come in and talk about because she business to her class. And while that makes me kind of chuckle somewhat at the same time, part of me is very excited by the idea, I really see a shift going on in the world right now, where people are no longer willing to throw themselves into the rat race and where, you know, like online, the online world has totally reshaped our relationship with work. So I feel like this book could play a pivotal role. So can you see me getting carried away here, but a pivotal role in all of that. And I guess that’s the other thing, there’s the kind of intellectual side and then there’s the practical side, and then there’s the silly Polly side. And so I you know.

18:49

I imagine your book on the shelf and to and to really sort of dream about what it could be one of the things that I often get my clients to do is, is to write that, you know, five star review that they want to see, from the perspective of the reader to see, you know, the kinds of things that the reader says about their experience reading the book, and what they’ve learned from the book and, and why they read the book all the way to the end, all those kinds of things. So there’s definitely room for dreaming, you know, and also, like, hard and fast market research, like go to those bookstores, and look at all of the other books that are on the shelf that are going to be next door to your book, and take a look at what you like about them what you don’t like about them, where you can see that your perspective is different. What the covers are like, what you don’t like about their covers, what do you like about the covers, you know, there’s all sorts of things. But when I was working in traditional publishing and sort of worked in a subset of traditional publishing is called packaging where we would take, essentially put proposals to book fairs and sell them to the Big Five and other publishing houses, who just wanted to buy it in a job lots. So basically, throughout my entire career, that’s what I’ve done, I’ve come up with a book idea, I’ve made a table of contents, I found an offer for it, I’ve worked out what it’s gonna look like on the page, we’ve done a cover, we’ve done a synopsis, and we’ve taken it to the book fairs and, and we sold it, delivered it to the warehouse, like it looks like it’s a book that they’ve created in house job done. So the market research part of my process is essential, because you want to get ahead of the curve. So like you say, this, this kind of idea of having more space in your life, and not having to work all the hours that capitalism asks you to, and still being able to live comfortably. We are, I think, at that tipping point at that pivotal point, and, you know, a traditional publishing deal wouldn’t get your book out there for the next day to get you within 18 months. If you want to get with where people are thinking right now, doing it slightly faster with being in control, self publishing, is probably the way to go before sort of that moment has passed, if it is going to who knows. Right now.

21:39

So one of the advantages of publishing is the fact that you can get it out there much sooner, what are the other advantages of self-publishing.  So essentially, publishing house is making an investment in your book. So they’re footing the bill for the editorial work. They’re footing the bill for the printing, they’re getting the books into the warehouse, they have. And this is why people, people would love to see their book actually on the shelf in a bookstore, the way that publishing houses get their books into actual shelves on the bookstore, is they have relationships with all of these, all of these bookstores, they have sales reps that go out, and they visit their list of books that have been published in six months’ time. And they sell them in, you know, and a bookstore has a sale or return policy. So they take the book, they have it on the discount off the sales price, which is what they’ll make if they sell it, if they don’t sell it, they just pack it up and send it back to the publisher at the end of six months. That is the way to get a self-published book into your local bookstore, you are your own sales rep, because if you’re self-publishing, you’re essentially your own publishing house. So I’m so so publishing means that you don’t have to worry about that investment that the publishing house is putting into your book. So self-publishing house, who is a publishing house, will have masses of opinions about your book, title, your book cover, whether the content is deep enough or general enough, an author that I worked with on a manuscript, who then then took her manuscript to a traditional publishing deal. You know, in her business, she’s much more about women and women’s stories and feminism publishing house needed the book to be more general, more like, you know, absolutely fine for a man to pick up and to find useful things that are so you know, they can be depending on the publishing house, you know, quite a lot of input that might take you away from your core business, because they’re the ones that are, you know, footing the bill, essentially, it also takes a long time. So generally, in order to have a publishing deal, you will need to create all of these things that we’ve talked about your outline, sales plan, a marketing plan, a couple of chapters, then you need to find an agent, which can take, you know, as long as it takes, and then the agent needs to query it into publishing houses, which can take as long as it takes, say that process takes six months to a year. publishing houses will usually have a look on their entire publishing program from the year before. So say you got your book proposal accepted by a publishing house tomorrow. have absolutely no chance will be published this year. No, if you’re lucky, and they’ve got some space in this spring 2025 program, it might be there. I’d say it’d be at least a year before you can see your book out and finished it on the shelves. And often even books are printed, published warehouse for up to six months before they’re sent out to Oh my gosh. Okay, so what I’m hearing is, when you’re self-published, you can get your book out sooner you have more control over what’s inside of it. And I guess the only kind of I mean, yes, he means you notice, you need to find the money up front.

25:44

Yeah, you need to find the money up front. So that yeah, that’s the only kind of biggest sticking point for some people. But then having said that, also, finding a publisher and all those other pieces would probably require various things that most people don’t necessarily have already either. So and it’s not really a huge sum of money is it to find for something that’s going to be a really, really valuable asset for your business, particularly when you’re well with somebody like yourself, okay, so I’m feeling reassured about kind of option, while you know, understanding that, you know, self-publishing is definitely the right way to go, at least in my book for myself personally. But the next kind of little fear I have that’s holding me back the one around, I mean, I mean, we talked a little bit about kind of other people saying similar things. And I think what’s interesting as I share that with you, as I reflect on the fact that I work with so many clients who similarly say to me, oh, there’s loads of other wellbeing practitioners out there, or there’s loads of other business mentors out there. And it always makes me chuckle when I look at them, because I just think there’s nobody else out there like you. There’s nobody else saying it like you. There’s nobody else with your own experience, your own expertise. And actually, so it doesn’t really matter. And ultimately, there are so many books in the same kind of genre. And no one ever goes, No, I read enough romance, I read enough business, I read enough self-development, I’m not reading any more like most people who are into a certain genre, or just want to consume and as long as you create it in a way that makes it written out as long as it’s super relevant to the reader. And it’s the journey that like you say that they want to kind of not just pick up and start reading, but actually read back to front to back. That’s all you need to do. Right? Do you think sometimes people perhaps overthink what they need to be doing for a book?

27:25

I do. I guess there’s a difference. Like, you know, if you want to be the next James clear, or the next Gay Hendricks or somebody like that you probably do need a publishing deal. But in general, you know, Brene, Brown didn’t go big with books until after her TED talk. You know, there are other big kind of online coaches who sold lots of lots of books. But you know, how many do they actually sell to cronies and subscriptions and, and all kinds of things. So a book works really well, if you know where it fits in your business. If you if you get to the end of your book, and it’s really clear pathway for your reader to know what their next step is, with you. I mean, that could be as simple as a QR code to your newsletter or a book bundle. Essentially, when somebody buys a book, you don’t know who that is. And that’s really odd and difficult for us online business owners, because we’re used to giving away you know, three master classes or PDF, lead, lead magnets, or whatever it is, and we know exactly who the person is, because they’ve given us their email address in order to come along, which means that we can contact them directly with things that we think are going to be relevant to them, you know, following how they’ve engaged with with our content. But when somebody buys a book, you don’t know who that is, you know, they’re on Amazon buying a book that that you don’t know, and you don’t know who they are. So your book also needs to help a reader become tired of your world. So that’s why a lot of people offer these sort of foot candles, hack things or summit to them coming off the back of the book. But it could be as simple like I said, as the newsletter link or an invitation to listen to this podcast. You know, making sure that your reader knows how to get into your world. And then once they’re in your world, okay, you have an email address, what their next step could be for something that they could buy from you. Whether that’s, you know, a small passive income thing with limited access to you, or whether it’s straight into one of your higher end programs, because they’ve seen from reading your book that you are the best person to help them take their business from, I don’t know, 10k months to 50k months. And, and I know having read your book, that you’re the best person to do that. So they’re striking there with the investment, you know, you get one person who does that. You’ve made chocolate buckets of profit already on your book, and then the next person who comes along, and just that that book is just, you know, just gravy, baby.

30:42

Yeah, I mean, what’s interesting is, you know, we say in the online business space, the more you tell, the more you sell. And of course, a book, I mean, that’s a whole long conversation through an audio book on top, and you are, you’re in there is, and certainly in their mind, if they’re just reading it for a long time. So I can imagine it’s incredibly valuable. So if somebody’s listening to this right now and thinking, because this is a conversation you and I had as well, but you know, is this the right time? What would you say? I mean, I’m putting you on the spot here slightly. So if you need a moment to think about this, please take it. But what would you say if we were to say like, the two or three things, you need to have to know that now would be the time to create, you know, to write this book? I mean, obviously, one of them comes, that comes to mind following our conversation is the money. But beyond that, what else would you say, you know, if someone’s thinking is this the right time for me would help them understand that now is the time for them to write their book.

31:35

So I think that you need to have an idea of what actually moves the dial for your clients. So I wouldn’t say that, you know, the first couple of years where you’re finding your feet, you’re working out what works, what doesn’t, what your framework is going to be. That’s probably not the right time to write a book. It’s, I mean, you want to, you want to put into a book, something that is going to help people, and you need to practice that, I think in your business, and you need to have stories of things that work and stories of things that don’t work, because you want to be authentic with your journey. Yeah, so I would say, you’d have to have quite a few years under your belt first, rather than sort of just rushing straight in thinking a book is the best marketing tool for you. I’m not sure that it is, if you’re still working out what you do, or if you’re sort of ready to change, tack, if you can’t, if you’re not paying to work with the people, the readers that you’re writing to, for an additional two or three years beyond your books being published, it’s not the right time to write your book. And you know, lots of people, I think, find that in the book writing process as well, that they go in thinking that this is the right thing. And then they hit a hard wall because they realised that the reader that they’re writing to now isn’t the person that they want to work with next year. So that

33:11

so it ties in really nicely with my evergreen philosophy of you know, being known for your core offer. Having extra, you know, wrapping up your strength, your strengths and supporting people with those strengths. I mean, I think that’s what’s so exciting about talking to you, because everything you’re saying perfectly aligns with the kind of clients I love to work with clients who are ready to kind of create industry leading offers, have, you know, clear frameworks that people know them for that they’re known for their framework, rather than their office suite and not pulling offers out there? Bam, every other second, and like you say, they’ve kind of got that almost maturity in their business. So yes, beautiful, okay, like this. Can please carry on?

33:51

Um, what else? I think that. I think when it comes to it, though, just starting to write the book is about making a decision to write a book.  Because a book is something that you could just move really easily it’s one, it’s one point on the to do list for, you know, q3, q4, 2024 2025 it’s really easy to keep down the list because it does feel like such a big project, because you do have to commit some time to it. You know, whether it’s finding a week or two, like one of my, you know, I’ve got two offers. One of who one of them spent a month in Greece writing her book. Another one spent a week in Dubai writing half of her book, you know, it’s a thing you can definitely do that. You don’t actually have to write the whole week either. You can just write in the mornings and and then the rest time on the beach. I like the afternoon. You know, that’ll get you 20 grand 20,000 words in the bag. So you know, it’s easy to find Some time and space, because that’s the funnest way for you to write a book, or it’s carving out half an hour a day, or it’s carving out two to three hours a week to write your book, if you really can’t see that. That’s gonna stop you. And yeah, yeah, but in general, it is just about making that decision and going for it. And, and, you know, believing in it. And, you know, like I said to you, when we’re talking before the podcast, if you’ve got other big projects on, it’s probably not the right time to write your life, personal life project, or wedding. Or, I don’t know, if, you know, I wanted to go on a retreat in September, but I also realised that my middle child is starting secondary school in September, around the same week. And, you know, that had to be a hard No, for me, because I couldn’t, you know, I know that I’m going to be needed around the house in September. So, you know, putting start my podcast on on my, you know, September to do is probably isn’t a great idea, either, you know, when you, yeah, you’ve got to know yourself well enough to know how you can balance it. But also, at the same time, you know, once you decide you need, it’s a commitment that it’s a commitment that you need to honour with yourself.

36:01

Um, sometimes we might need some help with that, you know, some accountability of a book coach or a self publishing mentor, you know, there are all sorts, you know, you said earlier that, you know, there are all sorts of people who are all doing the same thing, you know, book coaches like me, well, maybe not entirely like me, but you know, people that help you do books are a dime a dozen in the online space, you are the only choice and our only choice. Only choice for me anyway. Okay, no, I love this. I love this. And I think what’s really exciting as well as I think there are phases in business, right? Like you said, there’s early stages, we’re throwing spaghetti at the wall, you’re seeing what sticks, you’re then looking at, then you’re you know, getting the experience, once you’re clear out, you know what, once you’ve got these clients going through those offers, and you see what’s working, you’re then building that invaluable experience. And then I tend to see for a lot of my clients, so then they’re at the stage where they’re like, Okay, I want to get more visible, but I need stronger positioning to carry that visibility to, to essentially leverage that visibility, you know, to make sure that when I’m making all this effort to do PR, or get new eyeballs on what I’m doing that I’m memorable, that I’m a brand that stands out. And so I kind of feel like in terms of the book, from what I’m hearing from you like, that’s also the kind of time that a book would be the perfect asset to have alongside all of that. And I’m excited by the idea because cushy is a relatively well, it’s kind of an extension of what I’ve always been in business now that I have more clarity around it, I feel like writing a book around cushy business, which obviously it’d be more specific than that. But right riding around that philosophy, I feel like it would enable me to kind of get way more intimate with what it stands for, what it means and what it allows for other people. And that feels like a journey I’d be really excited to go on. And so yeah, thank you so much, Erin, I

38:15

feel like that’s behind writing a book that you get to know your business inside out. It’s such a deep dive into your business. So. So there is that also that tipping point, you know, not just, I’m ready, because my office weights all sorted. And I have my framework, but also, I’m ready. And I’m also curious to see how it all fits together. And it is a way to really do that deep dive into your business that you might not give yourself the time to do when you’re chasing after 1000 things as we all are in this.

38:54

Yeah, there’s endless content inspiration, once you’ve written a book, it’s this is like it’s Yeah, amazing. Oh, thank you so much, Erin, for giving me your time today and for sharing your wisdom with my wonderful listeners. I’m sure you’ve inspired many. If anyone is listening and thinking, oh my gosh, I need some Erin in my life. Where do they find you?  Well, they can find me on LinkedIn or Instagram. The handle is the self publishing mentor. And I’m sure my details will be in your show notes. Because yes, they will. They will be in the show notes as well. I like to kind of articulate it as well to make sure people don’t miss it. Wonderful. Thank you so so much. And yeah, that’s it. I shall wrap this conversation up.

39:37

Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it.  Oh my gosh, I hope you took away as much from that conversation as I did. I know I am very excited to be thinking about starting to write my book, possibly at the end of this year. If you have any ideas as to what you’d like that books to be about. I would love to hear it. Hit me up in the DMS. Tell me and if you want to find Erin and To talk to her about writing a book, just go on and check her out at WWE dot Erin chamberlain.com. The link is in the show notes. Next week, I am going to be back talking about why your messaging isn’t necessarily the thing you should be focusing on to elevate your sales and the really important missing piece that so many people neglect. Anyway, by next week, I will have a more succinct title than that. But essentially it’s something along the lines of why your messaging is missing the mark right now. I cannot wait to talk about this. This is such a relevant conversation. I shall see you then next Friday.