00:00

Welcome to Make More Money Without Selling Your Soul. The podcast for bold entrepreneurs ready to simplify scale and reclaim their time. I’m Polly Lavarello, Evergreen scaling strategist and cushy business pioneer. Join me and my occasional guests as we explore the themes of wealth, selling and well-being, because building a business that works for you changes everything. Let’s dive in.

00:37

Hello and welcome to the show. Today, we have a wonderful guest, Alice Sheridan. Alice, if you haven’t already met her, is an abstract artist creating dynamic paintings with layers of subtle color from her London studio. Her work is owned worldwide and licensed to John Lewis. She’s passionate about finding quiet moments in a busy life and generally unpicking the subconscious patterns that shape our creative thinking. She co hosts the popular art juice podcast. She’s the one with the London accent occasional retreats, and runs the connected artists club, a membership that supports considerate artists to strengthen their creative practice and expand into their business in a way that actually feels good. I am so excited to have Alice on the show. As you already know, I love having guests on who are writers, artists, creatives, and talking about their unique journey and turning that creativity into a career. Alice has their most amazing story. Let’s dive into it. Hi, Alice. I am so excited to have you on the show today. For anyone who is new to Alice, please introduce yourself to my lovely listeners, oh, we

01:41

were just saying, this is the bit that’s always tricky. How do you sum everything up? So essentially, I’m an artist. I make abstract landscape, fairly sploshy paintings. My dad would say, Thanks. Dad from a studio in London, and I trained as a graphic designer, but I came back to painting about 14 years ago now, and since then, I have taken that interest online and into a membership space that I run now called the connected artists club, and a podcast that has been going for a number of years I’ve co hosted with another artist. So I have plenty to keep me busy. That’s amazing. How long have you been running your community for?

02:25

I think it’s 2018 so that’s coming up to seven years in May. So it’ll be our anniversary now. So yeah, that’s quite extraordinary, fabulous.

02:33

So we will definitely, later on, be diving into the theme of longevity, because, I mean, but, but before we get to that, I know there’ll be people listening. I know there’s lots of creatives in my world, some who are successfully making a career from it, those who are earlier on and would like to but haven’t got there yet. And the idea of being able to be an artist and have that as a way to make money and pay the bills, tell us more about your journey into making art, your full time job.

03:04

Okay, so as I say, I trained and worked as a graphic designer because I there was a bit of me that didn’t believe that having a life and making a life as an artist was possible. But to be honest, it was more than that. I wanted something that was deliberate, that was focused, that wasn’t fully coming from me. So coming back to art happened a little bit later on in life, and when I started it, it wasn’t really with an aim or an intent to make money. It was something that I needed to do for my own sanity, as a bit of a health check. Away from then young babies and being at home. I’d given up my job, which is what I wanted to do, to be at home, but that was also at its moments. And so I started drawing again, and I was enjoying it. And it took me a while to find the nerve and find the right place to start to show my work. And honestly, those first things I showed were fairly abysmal, but unknown strangers bought them, and it was kind of a wake up call to me that actually there is an appetite and people are interested, because not many people are doing this. And so that was quite exciting, but it took a long time. And I think there is a very easy sell these days on social media that you can just make stuff visible, put it out there, people online are going to buy it. And in all honesty, my progress and my path has been much slower. And I think that’s really important thing to recognize is that this isn’t going to be something that you race and run into. I think most things in life take time to build important things, things that we treasure, things that we look after, but the biggest wake up call for me really was realizing that I was really excited about selling these small pieces, but I realized how long they were taking me to make and. Also, I would have to make, you know, 500 of these things in a year, and that that was kind of a Ah, okay, if you really got to switch your thinking about this, if you want this to be an alternative to going back to work, you have to start taking this seriously. And that means you’ve got to start looking at what you make, what the price point is who are the kind of people that are going to be buying it and put yourself into situations that actually feel a little bit uncomfortable before you’re ready, because that’s the only way you’re going to test to see if this works.

05:30

I love that. Yeah, that before you’re ready, piece is so relevant, isn’t it, because no one’s ever ready for anything they’ve not done before. Never, never, never. No matter what course you buy, no matter what tools you buy, no matter how many pep talks you have, you’ll never, in your body feel ready, right? But it’s taking that leap of faith. So when you say it took a while to kind of get to the stage where it felt viable as an alternative to going back to work. How long? How long did that actually take?

06:00

I think there were two points. There was a point where I thought, right, come on, Alice, sort your stuff out. If this is what you say you want to do, or this is what you think you want to do. Crack on with it. And I had a fabulous coach at the time who I’d signed up with without even telling my husband that I was going to do it, just because I liked her attitude and I thought I need something for me. And she was fabulous. And we were skirting around all sorts of other issues. Of you could do this for a job, you could do this for a job. And she said, but what do you really want? And I said, Well, I’d quite like to see where this art thing goes. And she said, Well, how long can we give it then? And I said, Well, six months. Should we try six months? And she said, right, crack on. Let’s do that then. And that was the moment where I thought I really started to take it seriously, put myself in for shows, work at a different scale, give myself more structure and commitment in my week, which at the at that time, had two small children, so it was being determined about how I was going to use My time for a defined end, which was just playing and seeing where it went. And then gradually, I suppose it took another two or three years, adding prints, selling more regularly, doing art fairs, and I matched my previous full time career income from the sale of art sales alone. And that was when I thought that was definitely a benchmark, when I thought, right, this counts. I love that. And then the other things started coming in.

07:28

Yeah. I mean, I really like how you kind of allude to the fact that earlier on, it was making a decision and committing to that decision, and taking the aligned action around that decision, which so many people sometimes can romantically want to wait for a magic invitation to appear or something to drop in, but it’s kind of putting those reps in earlier on. And I’m interested to know in terms of, obviously, you’ve talked about going to art fairs and kind of getting work that way, what role did the internet play in terms of social media and social you know, online platforms in in your growth, did it play a big role, or was it kind of relatively insignificant in the earliest stages back

08:06

then, pretty much nothing. And so one of the first things that I say to artists that I work with is find an opportunity to get your work in front of somebody in real life, because I think particularly with art, but with other things too. There is that powerful connection that happens person to person about being on the spot and in the moment. And I think that’s really important. But it, I mean it is, it is hard. And I think this wait for the invitation piece is, is interesting too. I think you know a bit about human design as well. That’s for a particular human design type that’s really important. I’m a generator and I’m a three line, which means I like to experiment, and I have to experience things for myself. So I’m almost the exact opposite. I will not wait for the invitation. I have to feel the urge, feel the buzz, do it anyway, regardless of whether somebody is telling me it’s okay or not. So I was actually quite irritated by the fact that, back then, it wasn’t online. But the only the vision, if you like, the route in, was waiting for gallery acceptance. And quite honestly, I thought that was never going to happen. You know, if I want this, I’ve I’ve got to do it on my own. So it was getting in front of people building a website. I did that fairly early on with much it was a lot harder back then than it is now, for sure, but just this sense of I will not have my life gatekeeped by other people. So the internet and social media wasn’t a thing back then, I honestly started my Instagram account because my phone ran out of space to keep photos on. And I thought, there’s this Instagram thing. I’ll put things on there, and then I’ve always got a record

09:50

that really is a sign of the times, like nowadays, like, my goodness, there’s too many photos on my phone. I don’t know what I’m going to do with them all. No, the question I wanted to ask is, because. Is, you know, this is something you persevered with for a long time. And I think one of the biggest challenges in the online business space is that regardless as to what it is that you’re selling, whether it’s coaching or creativity or, you know, your skills, your whatever, because a lot of things can happen very immediately for some people. For those it doesn’t happen. For immediately, there can be frustration and the desire to kind of burn it down or walk away or kind of do something entirely different. But from what I’ve heard from your story so far, it sounds like there’s been a lot of kind of you’ve persevered, and there’s been a kind of consistency in your approach. What have you done? Like, well, a, have there been any challenges along the way that made you almost want to throw in the towel? And be when those challenges have come up. How did you how did you support yourself through them?

10:45

I think I’m just really stubborn. Like, really stubborn if there’s something, if there’s something I want, if I put my mind to it, I just kind of keep going until I get it. Like, if it, if it, if it’s not worked yet. It’s just because I’m not there yet. It’s kind of as simple as that. It’s very hard to think about things that haven’t worked. Because I think once I start to realize that I’ve lost interest and enthusiasm for something, I can drop it very quickly and almost drop it from my mind and my memory. So I’m not actually even very good at thinking about those things, because I don’t even start down that path, yeah? When I start down a path, I will just keep going on it, usually, because it feels at that point like there is no alternative, yeah. So building a website, for example, I remember my husband saying to me, gosh, you’re spending a long time on that. You know? Is that? And I said, Well, no one else is going to do it, you know, I don’t. I don’t have the finances at this point to pay somebody else to design a website for me. And even if I did, they would still need all the copy and all the images, and I still want to be able to update it myself. So I still need to be able to do that and learn that myself. And I think that ability to stay really on track with something until it reaches the stage that feels satisfying for that stage you’re at is really helpful. Yes, it doesn’t have to be perfect. It doesn’t have to be the ultimate end solution, but it’s just something that feels important to you enough that you’re ready to commit to bringing into fruition. And I really believe that. I mean, I have probably, I don’t know me, I’ve already, I’ve already got, look, I’ll show you. This is my piece of paper for ideas I’ve had since breakfast. So I love that. So, you know, there are a million ideas, not all of which happen, but the ones that I feel, oh, yeah, this one’s a goer. Then it’s just following that energy through. And I think that helps carry you through the commitment. If you feel strongly enough about something, even if you have a down day or a down week, then you’ll get back up and you’ll remind yourself, why did this feel important to me? Is that still important? And if the answer is yes, then you come back and you keep going at it. Yeah, I

13:02

love everything you’re sharing because it leans into themes that I’m very passionate about, which is kind of imperfect action and momentum, and that, you know, that is where we do the learnings. And the other thing I’m kind of hearing and what you’re sharing is one of the things I believe most, the most successful people I know, in terms of their entrepreneurial kind of success, they often have a kind of positivity bias, where we don’t allow ourselves to get dragged down by the things that haven’t worked or haven’t succeeded, or allow that to mean too much beyond Well, that was a valuable learning, and now I’m going to carry on with this, and I feel like I’m hearing that and what you’re sharing right now,

13:36

right? And I would say that I am the first person to say, I do not do consistency, which is going to sound really weird from somebody you know, who’s who’s stuck at Instagram, stuck at a podcast for six years, stuck at a membership, like, Yeah, that does sound weird. It does sound weird, right? Like, can but consistency is not the whole word. Consistency, honestly, makes me kind of want to shrink and shrivel. And this is where I think words are so important. If I think about it instead of as continuity, then I’m happy with it. There is a like consistency has a kind of rigidity and a pattern and a obligation thing which that does not feel good to me. Continuity has that longevity and that following a desire that is going to allow you to meander and flow and change and shift, and that’s the part that feels exciting. So I think whenever there’s a project or something that I’m working on that’s starting to feel a little bit tricky or sticky, I will bring myself back to that sense of, like, how can we maneuver this a little bit differently? How can we maybe adapt this or shift the edges? Or, you know, I have a team now that I work with, and, you know, there are various projects that we’re working on, and sometimes they get. And it’s like, okay, where’s the bit that’s feeling sticky. How can we now adjust this so that it goes back into that realm where Alice feels like, Oh, this is exciting. Let’s

15:09

go, yeah. No, that makes so much sense to me. Yeah. I think that is the secret sauce to being consistent, is the evolution as to how we do things, and finding that I often talk about creating spaces for play, play and pleasure, and that if you have enough kind of not rigidity, but a kind of framework within what it is that you’re doing that actually allows more freedom for kind of experimentation and doing the other things, but having some elements that are consistent allows for more of that. So sometimes the thing that people are fearful of can be the thing that actually creates that space to play that people are craving. But you’ve mentioned a couple of things there. You’ve mentioned having a team, you’ve mentioned your podcast, which I know has done incredibly well in terms of millions of downloads, and, of course, you’ve mentioned your online community. So I’d really love to kind of learn a bit more about all of those things, because, again, that’s something that, well, it’s challenging, right? Getting your first team and knowing how to manage them and how to get the best out of them. So let’s start with your team. Tell us a bit more about tell us more about that. Who have you got as a team?

16:12

Oh, okay, I really struggle with this. Okay, so the first person that I had on was when in fairly early days of the membership, and I love the connection and the delivery and the planning it. I do not like the admin of people coming and going and just keeping track of all of that kind of stuff. So I had the recommendation from somebody for a VA who’s in the States, who deals with all of that stuff. And I don’t even have to go into my email inbox about if there’s something I really need to look at, she will tag me and I will go in and have a look at that. But having somebody else manage all that comings and goings of people, that was an absolute game changer. And I tend to the problem again. This is the thing I tend to forget, that once upon a time, I had to do all of those tasks. So on the days now where life is feeling easy and I think, can it get to be this good? I remember that that’s where I started. That’s what I had to do at the beginning. And then the second person was actually she was a member of the of the community, but she was in Australia, and she was, she was very switched on techie. And I thought, I wonder if we can get her on board and she does the weekly, uh, membership email, which I used to spend my Sunday doing, because it goes out on Monday morning. And I just had one of the moments I thought, I’m not doing this. To spend my Sunday doing this. This is not working for me anymore. So different people for different roles, and now I work with the incredible Joe McCarthy, who actually has a private Instagram account. Joe McCarthy chats now, and she came in as a guest and stayed, and she’s just the most incredible sounding board, and also provides a little bit of balance. You know, my energy is usually high, hers is gentler and more nurturing, and the pair of us together work really well, amazing.

18:07

So she a partner or no? She’s just, she’s freelance, and she still works on her own business, but she’s just more involved than she was at the beginning. So is that at an OBM level or No? Not really. nobody defined undefined. It’s all undefined. Nobody has titles or roles. I love it.

18:28

I love it. Amazing. Well, I mean, I also really love how you shared the process behind how you hired, in terms of not available for this anymore. Don’t need to be doing this anymore. Let’s find somebody who can support me with this. And I think what’s really important is that that’s enabling you to be in your role as visionary, which you know, as the leader of our business. If we get too in the weeds of the kind of admin and day to day, it can remove the play and pleasure and fun and what it is that we’re doing. So that’s gorgeous. Now let’s move on to the podcast. Tell me more about that. How did that come about? What was the inspiration behind even starting a podcast, and how’s the journey been with that podcast?

19:04

Okay, we’re looping back to human design here, because podcast had been on one of my breakfast idea lists for about a year and a half, and I kind of thought it would be a good idea. I thought it’d be fun, but I also felt that I didn’t want to just talk on my own, and I couldn’t really see what, what it would look like. And then I ran a small retreat here in my home, and another artist came to that. And after that, she reached out by email and said, Hey, what do you think? Shall we start a podcast? And it was, it was the easiest yes that I think, one of the easiest yeses that I think I’ve ever given, because it felt that like we could play off each other, and we could share the roles, and we could keep each other going when we had those little dips. But she’s a manifester in human design. She’s the one who’s designed to initiate. I’m the generator there to respond, and I. That’s how it worked. And we just started, we said, well, let’s give it a go. We’ll try it for kind of four or five episodes and see how it sticks. And and it’s stuck pretty much.

20:10

I mean, you say four or five episodes. How many episodes has it been now?  Okay, so it’s been 279 episodes over six years, generally, one a week. And also we have just decided to wrap it up.  Wow. So, so let’s talk about burning. Yeah, let’s talk about that.

20:31

Yeah. I mean, is possibly going to be one of the craziest decisions we’ve ever made. I think we have loved doing it. I have loved the opportunity for the raw honesty that’s been on there, because if you’re showing up every week, talking sharing about what’s been going on for you that week, you can’t hide behind any sort of fabrication. You just can’t keep it up for that long, even if that’s how you started off. So I think people really, really responded to that. I mean, there are, I know that people have said to me, I remember sitting down in the kitchen listening to you saying whatever it was I was sharing that week, but these people saying, I just remember having to stop what I was doing and sit down and listen, because I remember you talking about something that was going on for you and just thinking, wow, this woman’s really saying it has it as it is. And I think people respond to that because there’s so much gloss and smoke and mirrors these days, so it was a super valuable thing to do. And also, we did have differences in the way that we worked. So she loved the consistency of it. I sometimes struggled with it. And I think, again, it’s the same thing as like, when you’re following something that’s a really strong Yes, I think when something’s working really well, it can be quite hard to say this has run its course. There is, because you can fall into the trap of thinking this is the only way of doing things. If this is working, why would I stop doing this? But the truth is, there are always plenty of other things to do, and I think perhaps I’m just more excited, and I want to give myself a little bit of space and time to discover those. But yeah, it’s it’s pretty special.

22:18

Yeah, yeah, wow. I mean, it’s incredible the fact that you’ve had so so many listeners and been running it for so long. And I also think, like you say, it’s so brave to walk away from something when it is doing well, and it’s not that you’re leaving it, because it’s not. But at the same time, I so often witness in this kind of space that when we do something brave, like that, universe reveals to us later on, why, like, something else drops in, right? If not this, then better, right? And we it’s often hard to even kind of make the space for that to even be a possibility when we have something else that’s taking up that energy.

22:54

And I think I’ve had quite a few things like, the last 18 months, my interests have shifted. You know, it was just about, initially, about art, making art, how you do the marketing. That was a lot of the focus of what the membership is, not, not the only focus. I mean, right from the beginning, we’ve had kind of three key pillars, like what your studio life is, how you do the kind of sales and structure, and also how you support yourself. And what I see, after so many years of working with people, is it’s all of those mindsets and overused words, but it’s all those mindset challenges that hold people back, and it’s just become the thing that’s absolutely fascinated me, and I’ve shifted how I spend some of my time over the last couple of years, and it just feels like, you know, you just have a sense that you’re just kind of moving in a slightly different direction, and I don’t quite know what it’s going to look like yet, and I do know enough that you have to follow that nudge when it’s coming, and that means making space for it. Yeah, I

23:57

love that, because I also feel there’s a stage in business where, where we are established enough, and we have enough evidence of our ability to succeed, that it does open up a whole new world of possibility in terms of, you know, a huge extra level of self trust that perhaps those earlier on in business can’t want, I don’t say can’t yet have, because can’t just doesn’t exist, but won’t necessarily have earlier on. And and so it’s exciting and scary and all the things all at once. Yeah, so tell me more about your community. Like, how did that come about? Because you were selling art, you were going to the art fairs, you started your website. What was the journey from kind of establishing your own social presence online to then having this membership? Did you build a big free community first, or is it something that kind of happened organically alongside? Tell us more.

24:44

I think I did. I had a I had a free group on Facebook, which is closed now, I don’t do anything on Facebook now, but that existed, but I think it really started. The community was on social media, um. I used to live stream a fair amount when IG TV was the thing, oh my goodness, and Periscope, yeah, that sort of in the moment again, that rather than having to plan stuff out, that worked really well for me, and I think it’s why the podcast also felt quite easy. But people just started asking me, How do you know how to do all of this stuff? And I have this background in design and associated marketing bits, and I thought, actually, I’ve learned quite a lot of things along the way. And I planned out this crazy spreadsheet of all the different categories and pillars and the things that I could include. And said, Well, look, this is what it could look like, and it is going to be a membership, not a course, because you can’t do all this stuff in eight weeks or 12 weeks. This is long term thing, but I’m not going to build it unless you’re really interested. So if anybody’s interested, sign up here. And I think I had 32 people or 35 people say yes, and that’s how we started. And it there was nothing. There was nothing in there. It was different days. I do have to 2018 was different from doing this in 2025 as a starting point. But I think the reasons why people say yes haven’t changed. Because people haven’t changed.

26:11

Tell me what you feel has changed between 2018 and 2025 I think there is an overabundance of information, and I think people are, people are deluged with that, and I think that puts people into a kind of state of freeze, where it’s actually very difficult to make movement in what they want, and there’s a lot of self doubt around. And I think finding your own inner confidence has always been something that’s important, but you only do that by following your instincts and then taking the time to reflect on what went well, because that’s how you end up trusting your own capabilities and abilities, not only to do things, but to recover from the things that don’t go quite so well. If you let that be the full stop, then it’s, it’s never going to work. And I just think people are a bit more frazzled these days.

27:16

Yeah, I really, I mean, I totally agree. I think, I mean, I’ve got two children who are like nine and 11. And so I think between school, pings, WhatsApp groups, community, WhatsApp groups, I kind of think in our day to day, the amount of kind of visual and kind of mental stimuli that we’re meant to just respond to, and things that I used to get annoyed by that have now become my own habits. Like I used to be that person that always replied to WhatsApp straight away. Well now I’m the person who doesn’t look at it for fun. And I always promised myself I wouldn’t be that, but I’ve had to in terms of state of kind of self preservation because of everything else. So before we’re even looking at work and anything else that’s going online, life is just a lot, isn’t it, and there’s a lot of distractions going on. Like you say, so much information, but that’s where, that’s why I like to ask you the question, because I was like you say, ultimately, the motivation to be supported by someone like yourself is still entirely relevant, and in some ways, I think, if not potentially, more than ever, because finding a person and a kind of steady way of doing things, rather than trying absolutely everything you find on the internet. For size, is really helpful, right? It can be really overwhelming if you’re trying absolutely every different strategy or in every different kind of approach that comes, you know, at you, I’ve never

28:36

had a freebie, for example, where we started like that was the thing, you have to have a lead magnet or a freebie. And I’ve just never had one, because I’ve never been able to decide what would be a good idea. So the offer is basically, if you’re interested, it’s so bad, if you’re interested, join the mailing list, and then I’ll never send you any emails. Because I don’t, I don’t send emails. Did you say you send one once a week?  I sent an email to the members once a week, but to my mailing list, not so much.

29:11

Okay, so tell me, are there any other rules that you bring? Oh my gosh, probably too many. Probably like, literally, all of them I’ve got, I’ve got a little bit better. I do have some kind of list segmentation. I’ve got two mailing lists, which confuses me. My website isn’t currently updated. Oh, there’s loads of rules. I’ll probably think of them as soon as we stop talking.

29:37

No, but I think it’s really refreshing and helpful for people to hear that, because while, yes, there are in inverted commas, best practices, ultimately, actually the kind of self trust and groundedness you have is very magnetic. And when I landed on your account, I immediately knew I wanted to have you as a guest on the show, because there’s that kind of sturdiness to your brand presence. And how you communicate, and a clarity to the invitations that you’re making that is very potent and actually funny enough. I was at a sales kind of evening yesterday. Was all about making sales and how to do it. And the word that came up regularly was conviction. And I feel like that is something that you have bags of.

30:18

I know when I’m lit up by it. I think that’s the thing, that it’s that finding it inside, and I know that it’s something that a lot of people struggle with, which is why, I think for me, although, you know, I talk about, you know, I’m an artist, I paint that for me was the doorway, the doorway into experiencing all of this. It wasn’t necessarily the starting point for wanting to make lots of money, or, I mean, yes, that’s important, and we all need money to pay bills and do all of those things. But I think when, if it comes back to something like conviction, you have to come back to that feeling of, why do you really want to be doing this? Where am I excited by it? Like notice where you’re set up and on fire and where you’re getting tired and drained. And I think having the ability to, like be aware of that, and also to pivot and to make changes when things change for you, because they do change, you know, something that I was once really excited about, that I’m bored of talking about now, so I’m not going to be talking about it anymore. And I think, yeah, once you’ve sort of established that that’s basically your flow, that also is the invitation come along for the ride, because you don’t know what you’re going to get next, you know, yeah, whereas if I’m sending an email to my list every Friday with the same old thing, there’s a bit about it for me and for them, and that’s how I feel when I’m on the receiving end of emails. I don’t want to be hearing from people every week, quite honestly.

31:52

So I think what’s really interesting listening to what you’re saying is one of the things I often like reference to my clients as being one of the most challenging elements to running a business where a business that pays the bills, is that despite it being something that pays the bills, there’s an element where we do need to, and I’m going to quote Laura Husson here, hold it loosely, but you know, where we can have a looser attachment to the outcome does enable us to be close to that mission that you were talking about earlier. You know, if we can, we can be better connected to the mission of being of service, of kind of owning our zone of genius, and being in that state and being, being all the things that we need to be to be a successful business owner, but where we hold too much, kind of, when we hold it tight, our strategy, the outcome, what we want from a conversation there is, kind of, it’s almost like we start repelling the desired outcome, And we miss the magic right between that rigidity?

32:42

Yeah, I think, and you said something about being of service, and I know that this, this is important, and I think if you’re, if you’re offering a service to people or a way that they can work with you, of course you want to make that clear. But I think if we go down that path too much, if we make ourselves subservient to what other people need. That’s for me anyway. That’s where a little, a little bit of me dies. Isn’t there something in a is there something in a Disney film? I’m not a big Disney fan, but there’s something in a little Disney Oh, I know what it is, Peter Pan, isn’t it? When somebody says, I don’t believe in fairies, somewhere, a fairy dies like, yeah, there is something about this obligation to be in service that I think can kill our enjoyment. And I think actually your obligation is to be in service to yourself and find that part where you’re don’t get me wrong, your skills have to be good, your offer has to be good. What you’re trying to find is that sweet space where it’s you operating in your best and other people want some of it, and then it’s just about opening it up. And I think when we can feel about opening it up, making an invitation to people, that’s when people are more likely to say, yes, yeah, no. I totally agree. I think it’s the attachment that we have to those words, like, for example, when I think of being of service, I think about service, I think about like being a party host and creating the party that’s exactly the kind of party you want to have, or maybe retreat, any kind of example, where you are inviting people into your space, and you know, you’re not going to it’s going to be your kind of party it’s going to have. You know, if you’re, I don’t know, maybe you don’t drink alcohol and you love mocktails. You’re going to put on mocktails for everyone. You’re going to play your kind of music. Kind of music. And the most important thing is, if you can make that spread and that invitation super clear, you’re never going to invite in anyone who doesn’t like it. And if you do accidentally, they’ll happily show themselves out the door. And that’s not you not being of service. That’s you kind of you know, essentially, I’m going to change analogies here and be like you’re being the beacon that’s attracting them to you. But it’s not about pandering or kind of maneuvering to what other people desire. It’s about owning the invitation that they’re coming into. And then in that sense, there is a balance in the being, oh my goodness, being of service, but not to the extent where it’s pandering, yeah, I guess, yeah, or bending ourselves out of shape. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s something incredibly potent and powerful about that. And I think what’s nice about what you’re sharing is, I think that’s also the ultimate permission slip for others who have been accidentally doing that so far, like it can trigger them sometimes, but ultimately, the biggest learning is like, how do I get to operate and be that way as well?

35:16

Yeah, I’m so glad you said permission slip, because I’m working on something at the moment. That is completely around that I went to a quite a good talk a few years ago with David David Hyatt, he runs the do lectures, and he did a day up in London that I invited two business friends to. And one of his questions, which I think is a great question is, what is, what is the one word or the thing that you would like to be recognized for? So if you think of all the kind of key brands like Nike would, you would all say, Just do it. If we’re talking about ice, you wouldn’t think about Wim Hof. And he said, if we think about you, what is the one thing that people recognize you for, or that you would like them to recognize you for? And I was with two, like, I say, two business friends who knew me quite well. And they came to for me. They said, you know, yours is permission. You give people permission. I love to, you know, to experiment, to do things a bit differently, to be themselves, to find a way through it’s not about giving information, it’s giving permission. And so I’ve been working on something. I’ve even got my here we go, signature, four step framework.

36:36

Oh, you know, I love that. I don’t love that. I it makes, again, a little bit of me makes me kind of go, Oh, seriously, really, you’ve invented one of those things. But I thought about it about last November, and it’s still stuck around. So I think I might have to do something with that. Amazing, amazing. So for anyone who’s you know, listening to this episode and inspired by your journey, and let’s say they’re starting out a bit earlier on what advice would you give to them?

37:06

Find some really good business buddies or friends outside your normal friend circle that you can talk to. And don’t underestimate those relationships that you make online, the relationships that I make online that have turned into real life. Friendships have been absolutely essential at every single stage, whether that is just calling somebody for an Instagram voice message or a chat or meeting up in person or people when you want to chew ideas over or collaborating or helping out at events. Don’t underestimate making those connections, because you cannot do this on your own.

37:50

Yeah, you’re so right related like businesses are. It’s not just sales that are built on relationships. Businesses are built on relationships, and it can be such a lonely world. You know, I live in Brighton, which is full of creative people, and yet still, the majority of the most valuable conversations I have are with people I’ve met online. Yes. So no offense to any friends listening. Yeah, amazing. So for anyone who’s listening and would like to learn more about your membership, more about what you’re cooking up with this permission slip piece and everything, all the other good stuff that’s coming. Where can they find you?

38:23

Okay, you can go to my website, which is just my name, Alice sheridan.com which is in dire need of an overhaul. It’s just other things have been a priority, but it exists, and you can find all the things there. The best place, though, really is Instagram still so I’m at Alice Sheridan studio on Instagram, and it’s still my happy place. So it’s where I play around. It’s where I show up easily, and yeah, so go and find me there, and you’ll can check out everything that I’m doing. The membership is currently. It runs on an open, closed model. We’ve just done a massive redesign inside it, which is super exciting, but it has been a really big project, so we’re getting ready to open that up again. So at the moment, there’s just a wait list that you can join for that, yeah, because we like to invite everybody in together, just like a party, like you said,

39:13

love it. Well, thank you so so so much. And anyone who is listening and wants to go look check out the website or connect with Alice on Instagram. All the links will be in the show notes below, so you can go over and say hi, thank you again, Alice and yeah, thank you so much for having me. It’s a lovely way to start the day.

39:35

Well, that was one hugely inspiring conversation. Do go check out Alice. Her links are all in the show notes. So do go check out Alice’s podcast and her website, or go connect with her on Instagram. I will be back in your ears next week, finally recording that guest special where I will be answering your questions so it is not too late to submit them. Do reach out to me on Instagram if you’d like to be part of the show, and I will send you a simple link where you can record your questions so that you can feature on my next podcast episode coming out next Friday. There’s been no quicker way to get featured on a podcast. Reach out, and I will be back in touch with you or one of my team members as soon as possible, as always. If you found this episode helpful, please do like. Please do subscribe. Please do share all the good stuff, and I’ll be your new ears next week.