00:00

Welcome to make more money without selling your soul. The podcast for bold entrepreneurs ready to simplify scale and reclaim their time. I’m Polly Lavarello, Evergreen scaling strategist and cushy business pioneer. Join me and my occasional guests as we explore the themes of wealth, selling and well-being, because building a business that works for you changes everything. Let’s dive in.

Welcome to make more money without selling your soul with myself, Polly Lavarello, and today, not one, but two guests on the show, Ruth and Becky, also known as the Honest Property Sisters. They have a mission, which is to help other freelancers, solopreneurs and small business owners build wealth through property investing, so they can focus on Soul cup filling businesses. I met Ruth and Becky at an event back in November. And when I heard about what they did, I knew I had to have them on the show. I had so many questions, and I figured, why not have you alongside, for the for the for the questions, to learn what you can about this. I am totally new to any of this, so come along for the ride. Welcome Ruth and Becky to the show. I am so excited to have, for the first time ever, guests on the show to talk about investing for anyone who’s new to you. Ruth and Becky, would you like to introduce yourselves?

01:35

Hi everyone. Thank you so much, Polly for having us on the show. It was just a matter of coincidence that this has all come about. But, yeah, basically, Ruth and I are sisters who have been in business together and investing together for more than 12 years since university days. Yeah, and we’re just sharing the message that just basically we’re here to break just represent break, disrupting the stereotype of what a property investor is.

02:01

Because when  we first started, we were at uni and doing our degrees, and then when we started investing in property, there wasn’t very many people that were like us. We were in rooms of people who were basically gender. The stereotype of was like the older, middle aged man that had come to these conferences and then suited and booted, and then there was me in our 20s that were just turning up in colorful Hello Kitty gear.

02:31

I love that, and that’s exactly why, because I met you guys a long haul leader back in November, and as soon as you told me what you did, I was like, we need to have a conversation on the podcast, because I had all sorts of questions for you. And I thought, let’s save it for a format where everyone else gets to benefit from this conversation too. But you are right. It’s so refreshing to see. I mean, I can’t believe it’s 12 years ago. You went to university. You look like you’re fresh out University. Still investing is obviously very good for you. Well, we’re also half Asian, so the term is Asian, don’t raise them so amazing. So tell me more about how it all started out then. So you we were fresh out University, and it was very different, for, like you say, to be showing up in Hello Kitty. What? What was the kind of thing that motivated you to kind of because there’s so many people who leave university and they’re just hoping to find a job, but you guys were thinking way further ahead than that. So what prompted that we actually came from a background where we grew up in Asia when we were younger, and our dad was a successful freelancer, and we always wanted to follow that path. I think it was just it’s in our blood. We just wanted to be entrepreneurs since, like, watching our our parents be those role models. But it one, well, in one point when we were at school, our dad, we went to a private school as well.

03:56

That’s not cheap on the line. There’s like, there’s a lot of pressure when you’ve created a lifestyle for yourself and your family to keep up with the cost of it. And dad was the primary breadwinner at the time, and he would be his business relied on him being present. And one day he got injured, and with that injury, he lost all his clients overnight. He could, oh my goodness, yeah. And he was a high income earner, but because that those clients were gone, it was like, What are we gonna do now? Our mum was stayed at home to look after us. He was paying for education. It was just so much on the line.

04:29

Yeah, it was just a random catastrophe, like, I think he broke his ribs, he broke he broke his leg, his leg, like two different separate occasions that he couldn’t work. We could move. He wasn’t earning. And we realized the thing that, like, besides having a business, which was a goal, having assets, learning how to invest at the same time as having a business or being a freelancer is so crucial to making sure that you are secure. Yeah, you can pivot. You have. A retirement plan, I think, especially as a freelancer, before you have systems in place, you are everything starting that business, and sometimes you get so sucked into the day to day tasks of running that business, you forget to look outside of like when you decide to stop working, and that’s basically what happened with our dad.

05:19

Yeah, I know that totally makes sense, is every kind of solo business owners worst nightmare. And I think what you’ve touched on is so relevant because, for example, I have an insurance policy. But you know, I know what insurance companies are like, and will they pay out? Will they they’ll make it hard. You’ll be like they’re stuck strapped to your bed and unable to move, trying to get wrangled at insurance policy, and ultimately, the biggest insurance policy is investments. Right? It’s having something that’s secure, solid, stable, and that’s one of the reasons why I really wanted to have you ladies on this podcast, because I talk often about, you know, creating businesses that give you freedom, but there is a limit right to what that freedom is, and you guys are touching on what is beyond that. You know, once people are at the stage where they’re making good sums of money, how do they actually create some security for themselves? I guess one of the questions I have is, I’m really interested in, I had a look at your freebie, which, by the way, anyone listening is amazing. It’s so educational and so interesting. It’s the lovely combination of your story alongside some actual, really useful information for anyone who’s new to this, like I am. But yeah, there were a couple of questions that I initially had, which is like, firstly I had the slightly naive question, which was dispelled by your freebie, which is, how much money does somebody need to have in the first place to consider entering into this journey, and because not every listener read your freebie yet, I’m gonna ask you that for their benefit.

06:48

That’s a really common and really good question. And at the time, Ruth and I started, as we said, Before, we were university students, we didn’t have university debt. We didn’t have any. So we what we did. Well, we we had our own business, which was a pet care business at the same time. So we were able to choose a business that we loved doing without, because we knew we were investing at the same time.

07:18

But with, with our education, we learned how to approach investors and give them a good return on their money, and that’s exactly how we started. So we were, we were searching around for an investor, and we were looking all sorts of places where we thought high stakes, like high we’re going to yacht clubs, like, but we didn’t, we didn’t. We We got out of our Hello Kitty clothes for that.  We were rejected, hard, so many rejections, but then, in the end, it turned out a family friend. So it’s usually someone who already knows, loves and trusts or likes you, is already got them in your circle, or someone like know someone that is already connected, so you’ve already got that trust. You just need to let people know what it is you’re doing. And there might be somebody out there who’s got nothing in the bank, some money sitting in the bank, doing nothing for them, and they want to be part of a venture like this, because most people understand that investing in property is a good idea.

08:22

Who want to invest, but they don’t have the time. They don’t have the time thing, yeah, but we did a lot of the work ourselves, but we we kept all the equity in in the properties that we have, but we just gave a return, and that was good enough.  Yeah? So essentially, we started investing with none of our own money. I hate saying it was no money, but it is someone’s money. You just have to be creative and confident with your with yourself in finding that and finding someone who already knows, likes and trusts you, and that’s more than likely going to be somebody you already know or something you’re already connected with, as opposed to trying to find some random stranger. I mean, you could use your own savings, but if there’s a way that you don’t have to touch your own savings, but you can have someone that you try, that trusts you, and you make sure that you give them the best return, then it’s a win, win situation.

09:16

Yeah. No, that, yeah, that makes sense. And how, in terms of, you know, did you come to him with a proposal? I’m saying him, him, her.  She was a lady. So  I love that it was a lady that makes me even happy. Isn’t that awful? That that bias in my head immediately swung to it being a man? It’s just like, it’s just a it’s a masculine area, isn’t it?

09:41

Yeah, that was another way to disrupt like, there just weren’t very many women on the scene at the time now, oh my gosh. So there’s so many women now, and investing suits women, and they’re getting younger, which is amazing. We just didn’t have anyone our age at the time.

09:56

I love that. So did you come to her with a proposal? Or, you know, at this. Stage, were you still kind of figuring things out as you went along? Like, I know you’d done some reading and you did a course, didn’t you? Was that? Was that before or after you’d secured the investment?  Our dad actually gave us a book from one of his clients who was like, very wealthy client, and he gave our dad this book for us to read, and we did, and it blew, it honestly blew our mind. And I feel like this is the OG investor reads, and it’s called Rich Dad, Poor Dad, by Robert Kiyosaki. I don’t know if you’ve read it. Yes, I’ve heard of him. Yes, I have, yes, yeah, but I haven’t read the book yet. No, oh, you have to. There’s like a trilogy, and you can give some one to your kid as well. But it is, Oh, wow. It’s taught us so much about not just in exchange exchanging money, yeah, and it was basically either going to be properties or stocks and shares, and we simply thought, oh, property sounds less boring than stocks and shares. They just make a choice. So pick that one. In hindsight, I we would recommend doing both. No, do both, right, but um, property, the beauty of property is that once you buy when you buy it, it’s a physical asset that you are in control of. And when you can identify a good opportunity, you can earn a recurring income now, as opposed to, like, just leaving it, leaving it, if that makes sense, and it will also capitalize in value, amazing. So that’s where it all began. Tell me where you’re at now, because I know you’ve got a pretty, pretty impressive portfolio at this stage.

11:28

Yeah. So every, I would say, every other year, we’ve been adding to a portfolio. There’s a lot of people for at least, at least in our echo chamber. At the time online, we were seeing people being like, I’ve got six properties in a year, and it’s just, we just want to advocate for slow, sustainable growth that’s realistic and attainable and isn’t going to cause burnout. I mean, we had a full fledged service accommodation business, which is a lot of work. It’s a lot of it’s a full business. You’re running basically Airbnb, Airbnb, yeah, basically, and we we got to a point last year we went, this ain’t, this isn’t what we want. Actually, we simplified, systemized, and went, Oh, God, this. It’s so much simpler than trying to chase. I think we were saying, I mean, we grew and then went, actually, this is a bit of a shiny penny for us, and it doesn’t work well for me as a mum, as a with a young child, it just doesn’t work. I don’t have the time and energy and space to be able to grow a business that is so fast paced. There are other ways to do business without burning yourself out interesting.

12:37

So I love that you’ve kind of tried different things to see what really suits you. And yes, I have heard some horror stories about Airbnbs, and I can imagine Airbnbs en masse must be even more I mean, yeah, it’s its own operation, isn’t it, kind of keeping everything ticking over. I can only imagine. So I guess I’m missing a really vital part here, in terms of, there’s the first property that you kind of secured, and now you’ve got this portfolio that you’ve been growing every other year since then, in terms of kind of that journey, one of the questions that I have hearing what you’re sharing is what felt like the biggest leap for you, because listening to my stomach is slightly tight, tightening just at the thought of securing that very first investment like that slightly terrifies me. But I’m wondering if, like, once you’d got that first bit in, and then the money starts coming in, that was it easier to continue growing the portfolio on the other side of that? Or what’s it been like? What’s the journey been? We started with two at once, which was amazing. I think, to be real and honest about the beginning is you are going to have so many rejections because you need to view as many properties be on the phone to letting agents or estate agents and constantly asking if you can put an offer in as proper, like at the time we started, we were putting in really cheeky offers, like stupid offers that like really low, just to make sure that we could genuinely profit like get because a lot of people will invest in property, and then they don’t really see a return, whereas our goal was to make sure we were hitting our our target numbers of of getting good yields and making these investments worthwhile. So that meant we had to put in really cheeky offers, and then, of course, get rejected many, many times. So you develop really thick skin. Yeah, do it.

14:27

And also, if you’re investing in property and you want to do it in a way that you’re actually being you’re wanting to earn income from it, not just reap the rewards later in your retirement, you need to make sure that each property that you invest in is cash flowing. And because we wanted to focus on enjoying a passion business, which was our pet care business, being outdoors and enjoying out, enjoying animals outside, we had to make sure that our property business was also cash flowing to give us that income so that we could have the stability of the. Investments and the joy of our other business at the same time, we did two properties at the same time, that was very overwhelming. Yeah, we took we did two because when you are talking to letting agents and estate agents on the phone, you are, you have to be prepared for all the rejection, and that’s what we got taught from core. So putting out amazing. We did million viewings, so many it would be whilst we were building our pet care business. We were also going. We were calling. We were on Zoopla. We were like, just constantly call.

15:32

It was a numbers game. It was like, one in 10 of them gonna come back and maybe accept the offer. And then, lo and behold, two came back and said yes. We might not get this chance again. Just do it. And fortunately, they were only up the road from each other. So our first time getting into investing in property was very overwhelming, let’s say. But I think over time you do get used to handling I guess, obviously every project and deposit is a lot of money, and you just to managing that amount of money. But also, combined with the fact that we were young, 20 years old, Tony, 20 year old, so we had a lot of energy, and we were like, do this. We were going and putting beds together like 10 at night.

16:19

I think if your mission is clear. That’s what helps you get over any you know that, feeling like, you know, you know the end result. You know what it is you’re trying to achieve in the end. And that helps you focus on, I would say, also, because we were so, we so wanted to just be our own boss, we would do any absolutely like that. I think probably is the biggest drive. And the fact that we, you know, a big we’re also half Asian. We’re half Filipino. And a big driving factor is because in Asian culture, their family is so important, like it really is, like the the center of everything we’re we have a very collective mindset, instead of an individualistic one, which is very Western. And so the family comes first. And whenever we make decisions on where our wealth goes or how we operate, it’s in the benefit of our family. And I think when you when you think of you are more likely to do things for other people more than you are for yourself. Yeah, so if you have that strong why? And it’s like, okay, I want to help my parents retire. I want us to succeed so that we can contribute to our own families. Like that is a way bigger motivation to help you get over those funky feelings in your stomach.

17:30

I love that. And what difference has it made having each of you side by side as well? I mean, can’t imagine what it must be like to have a sister to kind of when you are working through any wobbles or any kind of I mean, yeah, in those moments where it has felt a bit harder, what differences it may made to have each other supporting one another. I mean, it’s been a more than a decade of evolution of this, so we’ve obviously had a fight. Yeah, that’s what I want to do, is when you’re working together and you have the same goal. Having, like, holding a grudge isn’t productive, yeah, it’s like a waste. Whenever we have an argument, we’re like, we’re wasting time. Always need to be working, yeah? So have a scream, go away, come back. But like, it’s very brief, and then hug it out, done. Like it’s very efficient arguing.

18:25

You know what? You guys, not only you like amazing in terms of knowledge, around investing in properties, but I feel like you need to be writing your own mindset book, because honestly, hearing how resilient you are, you know, emotionally, and the kind of wisdom you have around all the things. I’m just I’m in deep admiration for all of it. Okay, so there’s essentially two options. If someone’s thinking about investing in property, there’s a route where you’ve already made a significant sum of money, you’ve not done anything with it, sat in the bank, and you’re actually making your money work for you. And I love your reflection earlier on. In terms of, obviously, one of the really important things to do is to ensure you invest in a property in a way that it will actually be profitable for you if you need financial support from it immediately. And I guess if you were to go the other route, which you mentioned, which is finding an investor, of course, that’s entirely essential, because I imagine that investor wouldn’t want to come on board if they weren’t also seeing a return right as soon as you’ve got one or soon as but in the near future and what they’re doing. So those are the two routes into it, right? Am I getting that? Yeah, invest your own money, or, if you don’t have, see if someone else is willing to invest around you, and chances are they’re closer to you than, than you think, than you realize.

19:36

Yeah, amazing. And in terms of the time you’ve invested. So once you’ve got that investor, how many kind of, if someone, I mean, the fact that you’re juggling a business alongside doing all of this, how many hours does it normally eat into your week or your day when you’re kind of going through that process of expanding your portfolio and everything that comes alongside it? That’s a really good question. So obviously, the beginning is going. Be the hardest, because you need to be actively going out there and just getting the first one in. So that’s doing a lot of viewings. You might be driving around a bit. If you choose to invest locally, then that’s way more practical. We personally invested in our own city, or not too far from because it was just practical not to have to drive so far. Also, to mention, well, some people are completely hands off when they invest but for Becky and I, because we were younger and we did have the time, we wanted to make sure we knew every little detail. Yes, we couldn’t essentially do the plumbing or the electrics, but if we could learn as much as we could, it meant we knew how to not get ripped off. Yeah, and then delegate so the viewings will take, will take your time. It depends how much time you have at the end of the day, like you could go to work and then maybe delegate a Monday to looking at Zoopla, looking at right move, looking at opportunities, putting them on your doing a deal. And we call them deal analyzers. We have our own deal analyzer that we personally use, that we’d be happy to share, but, um, you would make some time, basically, doing the homework. And then you need to make, maybe, like, make some time in your week to go out and actually do the viewings, and depending on but you are willing to go, that’s how long it’s going to take. So if you, if you stay local, I’m just, I’m speaking on on behalf of what our experience is, yeah, and we didn’t very far, we made a made sure everything was usually within like, 45 minutes.

21:24

Then it meant that we could batch do viewings in one day, because they were close to each other. And if, if you’re trying to start out in proper in property investing, and you are looking at so many different areas, where’s the time to be able to go and visit each site, it’s just, it’s not really, it’s not real. It’s not realistic, especially if you’re starting to invest older so an older person, you need to be very mindful of how much energy and time it takes to actually go and view these properties. Yeah, and then, yeah, no, that makes sense refurbishing them. We did a lot ourselves, yeah. But besides becoming an electric obviously, we delegated that to experts.

22:03

Let’s just be master of so many different trades to be able to do all of this. I mean, I, I have so much admiration for it, and I can also imagine how the first time, like anything, will be the least efficient time. I mean, I’m obsessed with systems and processes over here, so I’m always like, the first time is always like the first pancake. You know, that’s when you figure out, okay, this is how much this is the temperature. And I imagine similarly, when looking at a house, I imagine now, for example, if you’re on Zoopla, you could probably sooner identify a reason why a property would not be a good fit, compared to perhaps when you were starting out 100% 100% and in the meantime, you got people on your side as well. That was it, the deal analyzer as well. Yeah.  Well, that’s like our spreadsheet. That’s like a calculated phone. Oh, okay, I didn’t realize it was a human being.

22:47

We have our own spreadsheet, and we use our own systems to figure out not it’s actually worth pursuing a property, yeah, to worth even calling up the agent. So then you don’t even step outside the door unless you know it stacks up amazing.

23:01

Oh my goodness. And now are these part of the kind of tools that you share with your clients when they buy your Yeah?

23:06

So we wanted to make that information readily available to everybody, because when we first started it, I don’t like it was so expensive. It doesn’t need to be this expensive anymore. I think back in the day, you learned how to invest in property from it was a generational wealth. You learned this information from like your grandfather, an uncle who was a builder. But now there’s, we’re in an information age where so much of this is accessible. It doesn’t need to cost that much anymore, and there’s so many ways to invest now, I just think, when we first started, we didn’t, there wasn’t that many people who were teaching it or showing it. It was so behind closed doors that we had to pay to be able to to find out this knowledge, because we don’t have anyone in our family who invests. Yeah, amazing.

23:56

So you guys are proper trailblazers. You know, I love that. And, oh my goodness, there was a question at the tip of my tongue, yes, hearing everything you were saying. And earlier on, you talked about your mission, like, what is your vision? Because like, hearing like, like you say that you’re making this information more accessible. What impact do you want this to have on the world as a whole? And, you know, and the people who consume it and start investing, I’d love to know.

24:21

So, our mission really is to share the financial education, financial literacy. We think people need to we’re not taught this stuff at schools, and we should, and especially if you’re a business owner or an entrepreneur, a freelancer, solopreneur, we’ve seen it happen to, you know, in our family situation, and if you’re not in your business, your business will not earn, yeah, and you need to have multiple streams of income, which means then you can pursue businesses that you really get joy from, instead of you’re not like, you’re not going to resent your business because you’ve got another stream of income through investing. Thing that is going to help you feel secure and genuinely enjoy how you spend your time in your life, yeah, whether or not passion business, yeah, whether it’s a high income passion business or not, then it doesn’t really matter, as long as you’re enjoying it without the stress of not knowing that you’ve got other multiple streams of income coming in. I think that was a big thing. That was a huge thing for us. And we want to be able to live, enjoying life with the day business that we we want to do, like, doing this is really fun for us. We love doing this, yeah, yeah, this is like we’re but we’re not. We don’t have anxiety over it, because we’ve got assets in the background that are working for us, and we just want to emphasize and share with the world that assets, investment, investing, is a tool for you to

25:49

Yes, yeah. yeah. I mean, I so love everything you’re saying, because I heard, and I wish I could credit whoever it was that said this, but I think, to be honest, I’ve heard this said in various different guises across the last few months and few years is that women in particular, tend to associate making money with doing something, being of service, while men have the habit. And I really wish I could credit to whoever originally came up with this comment, but, but men have the habit more of accumulating things that make them money and that it’s quite a kind of when you think about women’s rights, all the way back to the way back to the 70s, where they couldn’t even get a credit card, or you couldn’t buy a property by yourself. We are in an era where women are still finding their place and still understanding what to do with money and what to do with all the choices that we have. And like you say, nobody at school ever got an education around what to do with money and how to invest or anything useful like that. And you’re so right that, you know, the fact that my bias earlier on was immediately to a man, when I thought of somebody investing was because, again, my association still at the front of my mind is, is an old, fusty, dusty man in a suit and not too fresh faced, you know, kind of ambitious young women. And I’m so excited to see you guys at the forefront really creating change and impact there and changing the conversation, because the funniest thing is, listening to what you’re saying. There’s a part of me that almost feels some guilt. For some reason, I’m like, Why am I feeling guilt? But I do think it’s almost I don’t know were traits connected to what I associate with I don’t know that’s something I need to work through in my own time, but it’s interesting to see that and feel that and think, What do I need to do with this? Because there’s a lot of people out there in the world not feeling guilt and really capitalizing on it. You know, it does get to be in inverted commas, easy. Now, obviously, what you’ve shared isn’t all easy by any means, but it does get to be simple, and what you’ve shared sounds when you’ve got the right guidance. Beautifully, simple.

27:43

But would you say it is? Yeah. I mean, we always say wealth looks different on everyone, yes, especially for women. A lot of women, I mean, I have a young child myself and that we’ve we’ve always said women, women were made to invest because there’s a lot of women who are moving into more entrepreneurial, becoming their own boss. They’re becoming their own boss. And what a way to free more of your time to spend with your kids, if you want children, if you actually want children, is to invest and find a way for money to work for you so that you can claim that time back to be able to have, I mean, women are working and working harder and harder, just on par with men, but women, if you are wanting to have kids, it’s a big self sacrificing thing to put your body through, and then that mum guilt, and then that comes with it. Yeah, yes. Then you’re, you’re, you’re like, Okay, which is, my business baby or my actual baby? Yeah, that’s why we truly believe women, especially are made to invest. Because where we’re finding our place in the world is not, I think it’s we’ve always got that nurturing, but I think feminine energy is always nurturing, like you say, of being of primary caregiver energy, yeah, because it’s interesting hearing what you’re saying as well about kids. Because earlier on, you referenced as well, you know, wanting to give back to your parents. And I think whether you have, I mean, I’ve got clients who, for example, have never had kids, but they’re, you know, they’re being there for their parents as a carer or supporting them at the end of life. And I’ve heard all sorts of horror stories about suspected inheritance ending up being care home money and ending up with very, very little security at the other end of the line. So I love everything you’re saying, because I think it’s something that people really, really need to learn about. And I’d encourage anyone listening to this episode and feeling really motivated by what Ruth and Becky are sharing to download the freebie, because it’s a really, it’s really eye opening, and obviously they’ve got so much more to share. Speaking of that freebie, actually, I’m just calling it a freebie rather than what it actually is. So Ruth and Becky, if anyone’s listening to this and thinking, wow, I’ve not explored this yet, this sounds like an amazing opportunity. How can they find out more about you? How can they find about more about property investing? And you know. What’s available to them.

30:01

So we have a free I’m pretty sure this is the freebie guide to wealth building. It’s basically everything that we’ve done, our journey through ourselves make building wealth. We also have an honest property community, because we, you know, accountability is everything, and we, when we first started, we didn’t have that community. It was just us two. So we’re really focused on making sure that everyone feels supported. I love that. What else do we have? That community is really only for existing investors, but if you’re at the beginning of your journey and you want foundational education, we also have our own course, which is the beginners roadmap to building a buy to let portfolio, which is what we are now focused on, because we believe buy to let as a strategy is, is the way where you reclaim most of your time back. So that’s also an offer if you’ve got, if you’ve got that education first, it makes it easier then to have more best spoke help from ongoing mentorship.

30:56

That makes sense, that makes sense. Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much, ladies, for your time. This has probably been one of my favorite interviews to do ever, because it’s just been so eye opening to me. And yeah, I just admire you both so much. I think your story is phenomenal. I think what you’re doing is amazing. And I’m excited for all the listeners who get to learn more about what financial freedom really gets to look like. So thank you for your time today.

31:18

Thank you. Thank you, Polly.

31:21

There you have it. Well, whether or not you’re in a position to be investing in property right now, I hope you found this conversation illuminating and interesting, and aren’t Ruth and Becky, just the most charming women to listen to and so oh my goodness. That resiliency, that determination, I mean, just amazing. And next week, I will be back with a solo episode talking about, funny enough, the common traits I see in the business owners who are successful, who you are and how you show up in your business really makes a huge difference to your results. And I’ll be sharing what I’ve seen in my successful clients, whether they’ve quickly escalated their sales and their growth, or whether they’ve been just sticking around the six to seven figure mark for a long time. Now, I will be sharing the behind the scenes as to what it is that’s required to be that person who can hold all that wealth and success and thrive. Be in your ears next week. In the meantime, if you found this episode helpful or illuminating, please do give it a review. It really makes a huge difference to me and my podcast. Thank you.