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Welcome to Make More Money Without Selling Your Soul. The podcast for bold entrepreneurs ready to simplify scale and reclaim their time. I’m Polly Lavarello, Evergreen scaling strategist and cushy business pioneer. Join me and my occasional guests as we explore the themes of wealth, selling and well-being, because building a business that works for you changes everything. Let’s dive in.

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Hello and welcome to the show. Okay, so after the amazing response that I got to the last episode where I shared what it’s really like running a business with ADHD, like the good, the bad and the truly, how am I even functioning moments, I knew I wanted to keep on going in this direction. Today’s episode is about another very real piece of the entrepreneurial journey, the slow and painful death of people pleasing and the resurrection of real boundaries. Because this isn’t just a mindset thing. This is energetic. It’s systemic, and it’s something most of us were never taught to navigate, especially if you’re socialized to be likable, helpful, polite, and absolutely freaking exhausted by everyone else’s needs.

You know, I hate to bring sex into it, but us women in particular, tend to bear the majority. I mean, I say the majority, it feels like the full mental load between caregiving to both generations, a generation below us and the generation above us. You know, to hold down the house and make sure the house is feeling and looking good, and to make sure we’re also holding down successful careers, and I mean and even just day to day in the street, in any expectation, so often it’s a woman who’s meant to be the one who goes the extra the extra mile, and it’s a lot to carry and with under The weight of what we’re carrying so often we barely even have the energy to stop and to question it. But if you are an online business owner and you’ve been at this for a while, you will be aware of how this may be negatively impacting you in your business. And actually, this all came to light when a client recently asked me a question. So this client of mine is inside the accelerator. She recently ran a webinar. The webinar went really well. It translated to lots of sales calls, but there was one particular inquiry that seemed to kind of be laced with a few red flags. And one of the things that my client was considering doing was simply just saying, I don’t think I’m the right fit for you. And it raised an interesting question, because previously, when I first so, I started my business back in 2020 and in 2021 I really got deep into subconscious transformation and energetics, I found it totally like eye opening to understand the stories I’d been telling myself that were either supporting my success or potentially holding me back. And one of the things that’s talked about a lot in the energetic space is protecting our energy and walking away from the things that are going to negatively impact it, right? That’s the kind of simple form right. Now, I know that’s not comprehensive, and I know people go deeper than that, and an example of going deeper than that was one of the things I had to challenge myself with after a brief stint of attempting to walk away from clients who already from the get go appear to be a bad match. Was recognizing Actually, can I just keep on doing that in life? Can I just keep on walking away every time somebody brings a challenge or ignores my authority or tramples all over my boundaries, because the truth is, it’s not like that only happens in business, right? That can happen in real life. If we’re the same person that has clients come along who treat us that way, then chances are, we may be allowing loved ones to do the same thing too. We may be allowing strangers in the streets to do the same thing too. And it’s a very powerful thing to understand how to navigate Right? Like in my early 20s, I used to occasionally sit around, let’s say, a party, a party where we’re, you know, sitting around a table, sharing a dinner. And I’d look at some women, usually in their 40s, but sometimes younger, and I would just think, wow, how do you how do you behave?

So composed, so loving, so passionate. But at the same time, I wouldn’t cross you in a second. And I’d look at those kind of women and think they just have a level of confidence that I don’t think I’m ever going to have. And that’s why I wanted to share this, because you may listen to me now and think maybe she has a. Level of confidence I’m never going to have, but I want you to know that this has been a hard slog, which I’m going to go more into in a moment. It has been a hard slog. And so the thing I actually challenged my client to do was I did say to her, Well, what happens where you actually do respond, and you do make the invitation for this person to work with you, the person who already appears to be somebody who may be challenging in regards to her respect for boundaries. But to be incredibly clear, when you have that conversation and say, This is how I work, these are the kind of people who get the best results, the people who show up, the people who implement, the people who are coachable and curious. You know, this is what is going to be required from our sessions for you to get the most of it. And you know, if this sounds good, we can move to the next step, because previous me would be way too scared to do that. But what I’ve learned since is that I no longer have tricky clients. Now that’s not because I don’t have clients with insecurities or clients who might who could have been a tricky client. The difference is, is how I behave now. But before I tell you what what that is, let’s talk about the cycle of people pleasing. So I’m going to go back a bit, because this is a cycle I felt into hard, particularly in my ads management days. But I will say, and this is another watch out if you are service provider. I thought if I moved away from being a service provider and instead moved over to being a mentor, I would be able to avoid falling into this same trap. No, that did not happen. Okay, these patterns, these tendencies, they follow us everywhere. In whatever capacity you’re supporting your clients in, as long as you are in some kind of service provision role, whether it’s consulting, whether it’s actual kind of done for you, services, you can still fall into this trap.

So I want you to maybe just listen to this cycle and see if you can see any of yourself into this? So this is what I like to call the people pleaser spiral of doom, and it goes like this. So I remember back in the day when I first, like, you know, put my prices up and really started to own the success I’d got from my clients. And it worked. Somebody who I had previously been watching on the sidelines, going, Wow, how does she do that? She’s amazing. Actually reached out to me and said, Hey, Polly, I’ve heard amazing things about you. How can we work together? And I hesitated at every single stage. I delayed sending her the contract. She actually had to reach out to reach out to me twice and say, Hey, are you going to send me that contract? And I mean everything I felt like I was wading through tar now that was because I was in phase one of the people pleaser spiral of doom, which is number one feeling imposter syndrome, because she was a high caliber client that I could have only dreamed to have worked with. And rather than delighting and jumping in the air and squealing, instead, I felt like I was suffocating under the pressure of, I hope she still likes me this much when I actually start delivering for her, right? Because she came in with that real enthusiasm of, like, I’ve heard amazing things about you. I can’t wait to work with you, and she was just such a delight. And my biggest fear was, I just don’t want to ever make this woman sad. And that was like suffocating suffic. It feels really vulnerable sharing this, but I really want to share this, because I know the transition from being that person to who I am now has made a huge difference. And I also want to caveat this with, like, No, I’m not entirely healed. The stuff doesn’t ever entirely go away. The difference is, I move through these things much faster, and I recognize these things when they happen, and I catch them ago. We’re not hearing that story today.

Princess, you know, look at all the things you’ve achieved. We are not dwelling on that. She’s gonna love it. Move on. Okay, so I want to, I don’t want to pretend that we just stop caring. I think if you’re a caring human being, which Thank Thank goodness for you. We need caring human beings on this planet, that it is very natural to have concerns, but what we do with those concerns is the difference. Okay, so I’m not pretending you become a robot that suddenly has no emotions, or that you’re going to turn into a full blown narcissist that stops giving a shit. The difference is how we respond. So number one, feeling imposter syndrome. That’s phase one of this cycle. Phase two, and there’s five parts, by the way, BT Dubs, is that the triggers that that triggers, prove energy. Okay, let me show you how good I am. I’m going to over deliver for you. I’m going to answer your questions at 10pm I’ll work weekends. Hey, I’ll even read your aura, if that helps. One of my first ever ads clients wrote me a testimonial that when I shared it with a copywriter I’d hired to help me with my first ever website. She said, Polly. I am not putting that testimonial on your homepage because it makes you sound like a therapist. And she wasn’t wrong. I wish I could pull it out now, although I wouldn’t want that person to hear but she was kind of saying, Polly held my hand for every step, every wobble, she was there for me, like at any point she was there during the I mean, all the stuff that was well outside the scope of being an ads manager. Was all the stuff she was saying was fabulous about working with me, and weirdly enough, I took some pride in that. I was like, yes, yes, I am that woman that’s so much more than what other people are doing.

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But that wasn’t helping me, because at the same time, I had two children to raise. I was still a single parent at that time, and that client was eating into a lot of my energy, not just in terms of time, but emotionally too. I’m a big Empath, so I was on that roller coaster ride with her. I wasn’t, I mean, I mean, it probably was quite cathartic to her to share with me and feel like I was in her corner. But neither of us were winning in that situation. I was on that roller coaster with her. I was not a beacon, a light that she could kind of come towards and feel safe and steady. We were both. We were both a mess. Ain’t nobody winning in that situation. And needless to say, that was a client where it didn’t end well because she ended up anyway. We’ll go more into how that happened as I continue through the cycle. So three, phase three of this cycle that energy makes your client feel not quite safe, like maybe you’re not quite solid, or your services aren’t quite solid, or your offer isn’t quite solid. So they’re going to grab the wheel instead and start driving the relationship. That’s where you can forget any clauses you took the time to hire somebody to help you write in your contract, because words mean nothing if your actions say otherwise, and if you are over delivering, but still chronically insecure about what that is, your client won’t feel safe, and they will want you to be over delivering, because they’ll assume that you need to be because that’s what you’ve been doing and they’re not feeling safe in what you’re delivering. You’ll then phase four respond to their anxiety by trying to give even more. Forget bank holiday weekends you don’t need them, which only convinces them even further that something must be off, because they’ll be talking to their peers who are like, Well, no, no, my person shows up for three hours they deliver. It’s great, and they’re probably delivering exactly the same thing, but you’re showing up 20 hours of the week and they’re still not trusting you, because you’re not trusting yourself. Phase Five.

Don’t worry. This is the end of the cycle. I know this is painful to be living right now. Now you’re exhausted, overextended and doubting yourself, and they’re nitpicking, pushing or disappointed, even if your work is objectively fantastic. And here’s the thing, right? You can hand somebody the most perfect cake. You know, I love a cake analogy. Roll with me, guys. But if you put that cake down on the table and say, I’m worried it’s a bit bitter, they will search for the bitterness, and they will taste the doubt. If you say, oh my goodness, this is the culmination of five years training Michelin starred kind of recipe. And, you know, amazing. And I got this amazing cacao from over here, and I got this beautiful cream from this local farm over there. And, you know, I spent three hours sweating over this. And I didn’t have to mention the sweat, but, like, because, again, that’s actually people policing. See, I told you, I’m not entirely out of it. Entirely out of it, but, you know, I’m, I’m delighted. I’m excited to present this to you, even if you do maybe think, Oh, could have been in the oven a bit longer, because, you know, there’s enough, like 95% of it’s good. So let’s not worry about the five and that person is going to sit there and feel like they’ve had a plate of heaven, because they won’t just be tasting the actual cake. They’ll be tasting your excitement, your confidence. I mean, we’ve all been there right house. When you go to someone and they’re hospitable and they’re excited to feed you, and they’re excited to entertain you, and that is the most relaxing, enjoyable experience, versus the person whose house you go to where they’re like, Oh no, there’s only four of those in the fridge. So can you just, yeah, if you could, yeah, no, yeah, great, yeah, take the tap water. That’d be wonderful. It’s not the same, right? Okay, so people don’t just respond to the deliverable they respond to the energy underneath it. Okay, it’s really important.

So what’s different now, what has changed for me, because I was very firmly rooted in that cycle. I did all sorts of things to try and remedy it. I fired tricky clients where the cycle got so out of control that we were well beyond what was contracted, and I would end up resenting them. I would end up sending 10 minute long voxers to my mentor, going, What is wrong with them? How could they be treated? Me this way, and, you know, constantly trying to run away from the problem, and the problem kept on following me everywhere, because, guess what? It wasn’t about them. So it’s not that difficult. Clients no longer exist. They do, but they don’t land the same way anymore. So here’s what’s changed? I have stopped trying to prove and started delivering with conviction. Now, I’m not going to lie, it does help that I have been mastering the work I’ve I now do

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for since 2021 four years now, okay, Evergreen funnels have been in my world five years, and I’ve been mentoring people on how to deliver, build and do all the rest, scale all the way to seven figures in various cases. So I have absolute conviction in my ability to know if I can support someone, confidently tell them if I can support them, and then give them amazing resources, which, again, every single year, I go in and I update those resources if necessary, if I see a shift in the industry, which means they need updating sooner, like I have enough capacity to ensure that the resources are great, that the support is amazing, and so I don’t have to wobble because I know that everything has been designed immaculately to give, whether it’s a one to one or an accelerator client, more than enough support to get what they need in a way that actually is very supportive to them. You know, I’ve tried and tested various things that were good or not so good, to get to the stage where I feel like where things are at. Now it’s absolute chef’s kiss, okay? So having conviction and what you deliver really helps that is a combination of both looking at the results you’ve got for your clients, but also being super intentional about what you deliver and how you deliver it, so that you can have absolute faith and confidence in the resources you are building for your clients, if that is part of the work you do, right? The other thing that really helped is I got crystal clear on what I offer, how I help, and what’s outside the scope.

So I can say it upfront. I can say it in my marketing. I can say it in my contract. I also say it audibly and on video. At the very beginning of the accelerator, I talk really clearly about how people can get the most from the accelerator, what I am here to do and what I’m not there to do. So I know I’ve mentioned in the past, for example, that I don’t lifeguard, I say to people, don’t wait for me to spot that you’re struggling. You need to raise your hand and say, I need help. And we literally like make it clear throughout the entire process, from the contract, how to ask for help, how to ask for help inside the accelerator, and then obviously, in those first modules. So you know, I’m aware that people miss a lot of things along the way. So we have a lot of repetition from our, you know, out of office email to everywhere, there are reminders of what those business boundaries are, so that they are impossible to miss. And so that, for example, if a client were to message me at 7pm on a Friday and not here to meet, hear from me till a business day the following Monday, that they are not shocked, because it’s there in my my out of office and in my email signature, and also clearly referenced in the accelerator.

So it’s kind of, you know, sign posted in three places to make it hard to miss, and it’s something I regularly articulate, too. So the other thing I have is I’ve built containers with structure, channels, boundaries, expectations, and most importantly, I enforce them. If you don’t enforce your boundaries, people will just keep on taking. That was one of the things I had to learn the hard way. In fact, my mentor had to highlight it for me about a year and a half ago. She was like, Polly, it’s lovely that you’re so generous, but one thing you need to learn is no one’s ever going to say, Oh no, that’s enough. I don’t need any more help from you. They’re going to keep on taking, taking, taking. If you start chatting to them every day on Voxer, responding to their questions, they’re just going to keep on taking. If somebody boxes you and you say, That’s a great question.

That’s something I believe the rest of the you know, membership program, like clients or whoever would benefit from, can you drop it in there? Or that’s a great question. That’s something my assistant, Kim helps with. If you email kim@polylavarello.com she’ll help you out. It’s as simple as that, and actually, people love a strong boundary. They don’t like gray. They like black or white, as long as you’re clear and most importantly, ensuring they get support. But through the capacity as to which it’s been promised, nobody’s getting hurt and everyone’s winning. I also worked on the energy I bring into every client relationship. I don’t apologize to my boundaries, as you can probably hear, I trust them, and that shifts everything. So I’ve been super intentional about my boundaries. I love my clients. One of the loveliest things that people have related to me about when they choose to come and work with me is they’re like, I can see that you really care about your clients, and it’s true. And the reason why I’m saying this isn’t to blow my own trumpet. I’m saying this because I think sometimes some of the feedback I get from my clients when I talk about boundaries is Oh, yeah, but I really love my clients, or I really love surprising and delighting them. Is you can surprise and delight them within boundaries. You know, we have it in my calendar when my client’s birthdays are the one to ones, that is so that we can send them a present. And there are other surprises and delights that we have skipped. And, yes, okay, that’s very anal, but you know what? We are a business after all, and there are ways that, you know, I will often get gifts that are entirely outside of scope. So for example, the carer is, yes, it’s a scheduled present on their birthday. The carer is, I always take the time to choose something personal based on them and what I know about them and what I think they’re actually going to really enjoy. That’s the personal touch.

The difference is, is that it’s, you know, so be really clear. Like, how can you actually be generous, but in a way that feels good. And where, where do you need to be boundary to ensure that you’re not over delivering? Because the other thing to remember here is in the moment, we’re just thinking about that one client right in front of us, right if you’re telling yourself you love your clients so much, that’s why you’re not boundary. You’re telling yourself a lie. Because the people who suffer when you do that, are all your other clients who are not being prioritized, who you’re not developing resources for, or, you know, delivering upon promises because you’re busy dealing with the most needy one immediately in front of you, and the one who’s taking up all your time and energy. And that is not fair to all of your other clients, okay, you know, and it’s not fair to your family who you’re potentially ignoring because you’re responding to them on a weekend. So clearly, nobody wins in that situation, like nobody. So the difference is, you know, between walking into room with, please validate me energy, and walking into a room with, like, Don’t dare mess with me, not because you’re cold, but because you’re grounded. And I guess, don’t dare mess with me isn’t really the phrase here. It’s more like, here’s here I am. Meet me where I’m at. You know, like, it’s not about meeting people where they’re at and their energy. It’s inviting them to meet you where you’re at. Okay, so, yeah, here’s the reframe. Here’s the thing I want you to take away from this episode. I used to think the solution was to avoid red flag clients at all costs. Now I know the real work is being the kind of business owner who sets the energetic tone from day one. And yes, it does need to be from day one, because it’s very hard to backtrack once you’ve already set unhealthy patterns. Okay, it’s like oftentimes, where you do that later on, that contract is going to very quickly come to an end, and often in a very ugly way. Because even if you are saying, let’s adhere to what’s already in the contract, they’ll often take that personally, because you’ve also been personal up until that point.

So I don’t worry about whether someone shows up a little wobbly, little boundary testing, a little anxious. You know, a lot of people have those moments. Hey, I probably have those moments with my own mentors. But the thing is, here, I’m not meeting them in that energy. I’m meeting them in mine, and that’s what my mentor does for me, too. And I thank her for that. I thank her for that because she’s modeling something that I need to do better myself. And I thank her for that because she is the calmness in my own emotional storm, and she is helping me regulate and ground to the most enlightened version of myself, and not the panicked, reactive version of myself, which we can all fall into at times. Hello hormones, hello perimenopause. Okay, so you know, if they can’t rise to meet you there, they’re going to just disqualify themselves. And the wildest part is the people who used to trigger my old patterns, they don’t even try anymore. They can smell the difference. I’m no longer easy prey. So the people who proactively seek out somebody that they can prod and poke

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aren’t interested in me. And I’m so happy for that. I’m so happy for them. I’m sorry for me, and I’m hoping that by listening to this episode that you will not be easy prey to them either, because they will smell the difference in you too. So if you’ve ever been the over giver, the Yes to everything, girl, the late night panicked rewriter of deliverables that were already good enough, you know exactly what I mean. So how do you stop being that version of you? How do you shift from proof power to power energy?

Here are four simple but powerful steps. One, I want you to audit your energy. Are you leading with trust or desperation? Are you leading with confidence or people pleasing? I want you to write down one area in your business where you’re giving more than you’re getting, and to be honest about why, one really valuable exercise I recently did with a client was I had her write down the actual hours she works on her client deliverables versus the hours she’s meant to work. And when she looked at what her hourly rate was, she was shocked. Okay, we don’t want shock. We want delight. Two, I want you to get clear on what your non negotiable boundaries are. Where are you still fuzzy? Where is there? Scope, communication, hours. Clarity isn’t cruel, it’s kind, and it protects everyone. I think we’ve all been there, right? We’ve all had that person we’ve ever delivered for, and it’s that. Same person who will often end up really upset with you, and the person who’s never given you any grief, who gives you the best testimonials, gets the best results and all the rest. Okay, there is a pattern there. Let’s avoid it. Number three, set the standard early. Don’t wait for boundaries to get crossed. Pre frame them. Normalize them. State your expert expectations clearly from the start. Okay, there’s no reason to be embarrassed by having boundaries like I say. There are so many people who reflect to me. Thank you so much, Polly for modeling what I need to lean into better moving forward. Okay, it’s a really positive thing. You can be generous and be boundaried. They are not mutually exclusive. And this one’s so important, and this is where I really, really faltered. I used to give people advice on boundaries while having absolutely abysmal ones myself. So number four is practice holding the line. Okay, so number one was, audit your energy. Number two is Get clear on your boundaries. Number three is set the standard early and number four is practice holding the line. When someone crosses a line, don’t panic, don’t overexp, just hold you’ll be surprised how often people course correct when they realize you’re not moving. Okay, that one’s so important. And to give you an example of that, I remember saying to a mentor, oh my goodness, I’m so fed up with this one particular client, she won’t speak to me all week, even though she has access to me all week, and she will wait till about six o’clock or five o’clock on a Friday, often to send me a slightly overwhelmed ramble. And that was really hard for me, because a Friday is my day off, and everyone knows that. But B more importantly, usually in those moments, I would be with my children having a nice time, and really, no, they’re after school clubs most days. So Fridays is really special family time to me.

So I’d feel doubly annoyed that I was getting this communication at a time where I didn’t want to be distracted. And because I am an empath who cares, I would get sucked into the energy of that message and the slight chaos around it. And then my mentor asked me the really simple question, and said, Can you be with the discomfort of not responding? And I thought, Well, I actually thought, no, no, I can’t. But I decided I’d give it a go. Now that is my stay. I mean, now I don’t even open Voxer if I see a notification, because I know people know that they can message me, but they don’t necessarily expect to hear from me immediately. And as a result of that, most people do stick to the one day that they’re meant to be messaging me on, on the Monday, because they know there’s basically no point messaging me any other time, which is, you know, was clearly stipulated in the contract. And, you know, so that makes it really, really easy. And of course, yes, the first time I did it, of course, on Saturday, I was thinking, what’s in that message? Is she okay? I think one of the funniest things was I came around to Monday, and she was actually sharing a celebration of something that gone really well. And part of me was like, Oh, I could have opened it, but I still recognize that there was a massive value in waiting, and that celebrating her on the Monday looked no different to celebrating her on the Friday. That is one tiny thing that means my weekends are more peaceful, my time with my children is less interrupted. I can then approach Mondays where I do get my Voxer Messages, My Voxer updates for my private clients from a space of immense generosity, because I am recharged, ready to go, and excited to hear how they’re doing.

So it really like tiny things can have a huge ripple effect. So here’s the truth, the confident, calm and boundary business owner you admire. She’s not a unicorn, she’s not unreachable. She’s just you, minus the leaking energy and chronic self doubt, which, yes, we all have, to a certain extent. I mean, that’s why, that’s why you see it, and that’s why self development books do so well. Because all of us would like to be a little bit better. Okay, we all, we would all like to be a little bit better. I’m saying that twice because you need to remember that nobody feels like they are the finished product, but some people are much better at acting like they are, and therefore receiving that safe, confident response from others around them. So when you show up like that, your clients rise too. They respect the container. They respect you. They get better results because you are better resourced. So your loving Challenge for this week, I want you to write down one place in your business where you’re over giving one boundary, you’re not enforcing one place, you’re bleeding energy, and ask yourself, what would the most boundaried, confident version of me do here? Then go get it. Okay. You don’t need to prove anymore. You just need to own it until next time, protect your magic and stop serving bitter cake. Keep it cushy. All right, next week, I’ll be in your ears with a guest episode, which I’m very excited about. And the following week, I’m going to be talking about why 90% of low ticket offers. Of mini offers fail. Yes, you heard that, right. If you’ve got a funnel set up this summer with a mini offer and it’s not converting the way you’d like it to, then you’ll want to tune into that episode dropping in two weeks time. In the meantime, if you enjoyed this episode, please do share it with any other online business owners, anyone else who has complained to you about their lack of boundaries, and please do subscribe and do all the good stuff. Give it a lovely review. Really helps me reach as many ears as possible, until then, be in your ears next week