00:00

Welcome to Make More Money Without Selling Your Soul. The podcast for bold entrepreneurs ready to simplify scale and reclaim their time. I’m Polly Lavarello, Evergreen scaling strategist and cushy business pioneer. Join me and my occasional guests as we explore the themes of wealth, selling and well-being, because building a business that works for you changes everything. Let’s dive in.

00:37

Welcome to the show. You are in for such a treat today because I am joined by the fabulous Libby Langley. She’s a business coach, podcaster, author and all round straight talker when it comes to doing business your way. In this episode, we dig into the kind of conversation that doesn’t get talked about enough, the messier side of business growth, what it takes to walk away from something successful when it no longer fits, and how to rebuild in a way that actually feels good, not just on paper, but in your body and brain too. We touch on burnout, boundaries and navigating business when your mind works a little differently, something that’s played a big role in Libby’s journey, and is honestly such an important part of this chat. So if you’ve ever felt boxed in by what success is supposed to look like, or wondered whether it’s okay to build a business that honors you first. This conversation is absolutely for you. Let’s dive in. Welcome Libby to the show. For anyone who is new to you, would you mind introducing yourself to my listeners?

01:36

Yeah, hi. It’s super to be here. Polly, thank you for having me on. I’m Libby Langley. I’m first and foremost, a business coach. I’m also a podcaster and an author, and I help solo female business owners, when they’re overthinking everything in their businesses, to simplify things and feel much happier and be more profitable.

01:54

Amazing. And what was it that got you into this journey of self employment? And, you know, becoming a business coach.  Well, I took that unconventional route of walking out of my job, and I was self employed, so I’d, I had a really successful career before I worked, I worked for a college, and I was a senior manager within the college, dealt with all the commercial stuff in terms of training, and it just became kind of, yeah, it became not a great environment to work in, because I was a commercial person in a funded world. And it got to the point where I looking back now I was very, very burnt out and quite unwell. And I did literally just walk out. And that was, um, 14 years ago. This year, amazing. Started my business, and here I still am. So was it a conscious, thought out, strategic move? Has it paid off? Yes.

02:47

Oh, well, I love to hear that. And, um, so when you, when you left, did you, did you have any plan at all? Was there? Was there an area of your life where you’re like, I wish I could be doing this more, or was it a matter of just getting away from that time? Environment and getting having a moment to kind of recalibrate before thinking about those next steps?

03:07

It was, it was kind of both, to be honest, I’d, I’d worked a lot with businesses, and I’d had a brief stint at self employment a few years before that only, only for a year. I’d worked with a lot of businesses, and I’ve always been really interested in business, and I got qualified as a as a tutor. While I was there, my real area of expertise was social media. So I started teaching that in 2009 while I was within, within the college to businesses, how to use social media for business. You know, Facebook and LinkedIn, Instagram didn’t even exist back in the the glory days of it being much simpler and more straightforward. And I was also doing my coming to the end of my MBA, which was about social media, marketing strategy and corporate communication, such a sexy title, and I so I had loads of skills and experience within working with businesses, and I knew I had transferable skills. So I walked out, I went to Thailand for two weeks, and then I had some lunches with business people that I knew through networking, and said, You reckon I can earn a couple of grand a month. Hilarious, teaching people, teaching businesses to use social media and helping them with their strategy and coaching them. And of course, everybody said yes, and that was it. And it’s over the years that I’ve really refined, as we all do, really refined what I like and what I’m really good at and the social media stuff. I ran an agency for social media and all that back in the early days, but it the business coaching has kind of always been the constant and the strategy and the understanding why people want to do this and what makes them happy in business. That’s the thing that I really I really like, have always really liked and really focus on. But yeah, there was no real strategies. Can I make money doing this? Yes, then figured out how I really wanted it to look. But my God, I was happier from day one,

04:50

I bet, I bet. And so you mentioned having an agency at one point. Did it? Did it start out that there was kind of more service provision and some consulting, or was there always a kind of. Balance between the two? Yeah.

05:01

I mean, I it was always, it was always a balance. I would say it was kind of 5050, to start with. But I very quickly got a staff member, then another staff member, and employed them and had an office. And so there were five of us, kind of at it at its height. And I did that for the first five, six years of having the business. So they did the social media management, that’s what we did a lot of the team. And I always did the kind of consultancy coaching, one to one, the more interactive stuff, whereas they did the service delivery side. But I didn’t enjoy that business model at all, which is why I made them all redundant and went back home working on my own. I’ve been doing that for over 10 years now. 10 years now. I mean,

05:45

I love how you express that, because it sounds so simple, and I imagine it probably wasn’t entirely at the time, because, and it’s a really valuable one to talk about, because I think it’s a route that a lot of people go down in the earlier stages of going into self self employment is leading with selling a service that is a service provision which is done for you, rather than done with you or consulting. And then as we kind of grow in our confidence and grow our network and grow our opportunities, we’ll often then lean into the thing that is more pleasurable for us and less time intensive and less, I guess, expensive in terms of not needing to have a team. But I mean, what did you line up for yourself for it to be a really confident transition from having the office and the team to going back? Did you go back to fully to being a solopreneur, or did you still have some team members? No,

06:34

I mean, I love the assumptions that you make about the way that I do business. So I am. I’ve always done a lot of self development, professional development, and I’d been to various conferences in the states to learn more about digital marketing, and that was always my area of expertise. And I was 2015 I think it was, and I was out there with some of my business buddies and stuff. We were sitting by the pool San Diego, and I was just like, I’m not happy. And someone said to me the most obvious thing, which is what I would always have said to my clients, and will continue to say to my clients, is, well, you can change it. And I’m like, I can change it. This is my business. This is not a machine that I’ve built that is self, you know, self fuelling and I came home and I spoke to my staff, and I said, Look, guys, I just, I don’t want to do this. I just don’t, I don’t want to be a manager. I was, I was a manager and a great manager in my job, but I I’ve built a job for myself, and all this money that we’re generating, I could have all that in my pocket. So that was the start of the process. And, yeah, it was really emotional, and it was just horrible, because they’re my friends. You know, I went to one of those wedding a couple of years ago. We’re still we’re still friends, we’re still in touch and but it was really awful. And the kind of plan was get rid of all the social media management, the agency stuff, and the rest of it. I did anyway. So I got rid of the turnover, oh, blimey. I mean, went right down. However, the profitability went right up, because the costs were just slashed completely. Yeah, and I was, I was much happier, and I had much more freedom and much more flexibility, and my mental health improved, and I it was then that I realized what building a business was like, or what could could be like, what it could look like. Because, you know, when you start out, you just listen to the first voice that you hear and think that that’s gospel, right? And I just joined an entrepreneurial group, which was great, and I met some incredible people and learned an awful lot, but the thing that they said was, grow a team, build a million pound business. And I’m like, Yes, that’s what you do, and that was the path that I was on. But it’s like, I’m gonna do that, yeah, and saying I don’t want to do that, and then doing what you actually do want to do is it’s one of the toughest and bravest things that people can do in business, because it’s frightening. It’s going against the status quo, and it’s putting yourself, putting yourself in the firing line to a certain extent.

08:52

Yeah, no, totally. I mean, it’s vulnerable, because you’re going back into that space of the unknown, like you’re with something you know that you don’t like but you, I mean, I, and I love to having this conversation with you, because that was my journey too, in that I had my ads agency, I started growing it, and I had very similar kind of plans, yeah, and then, weirdly enough, I hired somebody, a mentor, that was there to help with growing my agency, and, you know, doing all these big things. And within two weeks of working with him, I was like, I don’t want to grow. I was like, I realized I don’t want this. I want to do what you’re doing consulting, like, that’s fun. Like, I don’t enjoy I don’t want to like you say, being a manager. That’s the thing that I think a lot of people underestimate, that when you have the team like you say you’re creating a job like, you’re no longer the visionary. You’re the kind of person who’s overseeing a team all the time, and it’s a totally different dynamic one, which also removes you very much from the day to day connection with your clients. Okay, so that was your journey. You had that you walked away from it. What happened on the other side?

09:54

All sorts of things, really. I mean, there isn’t a pivot I haven’t taken really along the way, but it’s always. Been, it’s always been about business and supporting people to be happier and more profitable in their business. That’s always been a constant, but what that’s looked like has been very different. So I’ve done some kind of outsourced consultancy stuff. You know, being on retain has been, been essentially part of the team. I’ve done one off sessions with people. I’ve run programs, I’ve run courses. There isn’t really anything that I haven’t done in terms of how it’s looked. But I think part of that, part of that, has been great because it satisfies my inquisitive mind and my need for change, right, which I’m sure we’ll talk about shortly, but it also has given me such a breadth of experience in order to be able to help people even better. And it’s only in the last year or so really that I’m like, This is what I want to do. I want to work with people in a group. I want it to be really simple, like, we just get on a zoom call and we just talk, and then there’s a WhatsApp group where we can chat and follow up, and that’s it. And it’s absolutely brilliant in terms of the results that people get, and the support that they get, and the nurturing and all of that. But it’s not anything that I’ve learned about webinars and funnels, and I mean, I do an element of that, obviously, in my own marketing, but I’ve taken I kind of everything that I’ve learned over the years I now use for myself and to support people when necessary. I don’t like teach all these things, because they’re just things. You can have a really successful business just networking and people pay you, you know? I mean, you don’t need any of the other, any of the other trappings and the any of the other kit and noise. And it’s, yeah, it’s taken me a long time to kind of accept that, because I love learning everything and knowing everything. Yeah,

11:38

I’m curious to know the things that you’ve tried that haven’t been a match for you? Is there a kind of underlying theme as to why they want a match for you? Yeah, there is actually courses, online courses is and passive income. I do it in inverted commerce because, you know, passes, yeah, passive, right? But that, but that side, really bores me senseless, because I love the creation of it, right? That gets me really excited. But then when it’s out there, there’s no interaction. And the thing that I really love about being in business is talking to people and seeing the whites of their eyes and seeing their face when you’ve made a difference, and supporting them through their tears and laughing along with them. And all. It’s that that I really crave, and I find people so interesting that the totally kind of, you know, online course, where maybe there’s like, a Facebook group where you go live once a week, it’s so lacking in live energy, I suppose, is one way putting it that, um, it just doesn’t work for me at all. And that doesn’t mean doesn’t make hasn’t made me money along the way. But to me, what’s really important is, is happiness of being satisfied and being nurtured, and if you make money too, even better? Yeah,

12:50

no, that totally makes sense to me. It’s like that connection piece that you’re lacking when you’re and I guess, Tim, I was listening to you, thinking, there’s also an element of when we create a course, it’s pretty prescriptive, and it doesn’t really allow for the nuance in how people respond to learning, to information, to where they’re at. So it’s very limiting, isn’t it, in a way, that when we’re actually working, like, say, face to face with somebody, we can lean into that nuance and that detail and that kind of their particular needs and support those gorgeous so what’s the So you mentioned that you work in a group. Now, are they large groups? Smaller groups?

13:24

No. Small groups. I like small groups. No. My program. It’s not a program. I call it a coaching space, which sounds way too woo for how I actually am, but it’s it describes it the best. It’s called confidence to grow, and it’s small. It’s a lifetime access thing. So, you know, over the years, there will be more and more people, but the the generally speaking, there’s about five people who come to each live call, because there’s two every week. So there’s lots that people can can choose from. And that’s a really nice number, because there’s enough time for everybody to speak. There’s enough variety for me in order to not quite know what they’re going to say next. And that really keeps me fired up, the thrill of not knowing what’s going to be said. I really, I really enjoy, and it’s very supportive and nurturing space. But if there were 30 people in there, it’s lost its magic for me, and I don’t think it would be, it would be as good, and I wouldn’t want it to ever be like that. So no, I’m kind of like a champion for small numbers and small space stuff, because it feels more enriching for both parties.

14:25

Yeah, yeah. I love you reflecting that, because obviously I’ve had some guests on the show who are all about volume and bringing in lots of people. And I think it’s really valuable to hear the flip side to that. And of course, on this journey of, you know, trying on different kind of business, digital, all the different things size you also in that process have like, as you mentioned earlier, authored a book and published a podcast. At what stage in the journey did you decide to do both of those and which came first? Okay,

14:53

when did I decide to do them, and when did I actually do them? Or two different, two different answers, because I found. Found an old notebook. Oh, it’s in my bedside cabinet, and I had it years ago for, like, you know, the middle of the night thoughts, kind of thing. And it said in there. It says, Start A Podcast. And this is 2013 I’ve written this, right? And I actually started it in 2023

15:16

No, oh, my goodness, 2022 sorry. So it’s almost, it was almost 10 years. But the reason that it had taken me so long, I think, is because I wasn’t settled a in who I who I am as a person, and why, where I am in, you know, kind of where I am in life. You know, I’d gone through a divorce and was on my own for a bit, and then got remarried, and all that stuff makes a difference right in how you feel about yourself and how you present yourself. And also I just didn’t, I didn’t know what my angle was. I think I knew I was really good at helping people in their business, but it’s like, that’s so bully. You know, what the hell is that? There’s lots of people who are really good at helping people in their business, so it took, it took a long time for me to be in the right place. And the book is exactly the same. You know, when I first started out in the entrepreneurial group that I was in, everybody who had a business wrote a book to go with it. It was one of the things that we were encouraged to do. So I knew I was going to do it, but yeah, 2022 so I think I got COVID out the way, and then I was ready. But the book started first, and then the podcast launched. While I was writing the book. I do not recommend anybody does it like this, because it’s not as well as running the business. Yeah. So that, yeah. So the podcast actually came out in my years, no, December 2022 and then the book came out in February 2023, so yeah, they were very, very similar, and that’s and then my my confidence grow, coaching space came after that, and it all just fit really nicely now. And I’ve cut loads of other stuff out because it’s like, I’ve got those things. They work well, let’s just focus on those. And what are the themes of your podcast and of your book?

16:52

The book is called Life in business, easy ways to work less, earn more and embrace true happiness. And yeah, the theme of them is, is supporting small business owners in just doing things that the way they want to do. So there’s a lot of you don’t need to do any of this. Oh, I don’t need to do any of that. No, you don’t need to do any of that. You can do it like this or like this, and talking about the the boundaries and all the struggles that we have as being our own bosses, managers, administrators, accountants, every all the kind of hats that people wear, even if you’ve got an outsourced team, right? You hold a lot in a lot in your head. So that’s the theme. Is about the simplicity and joy and profitability of running a solo business. What I didn’t realize until two years ago, so not long after the book had come out was that I’d written it for a neurodivergent mind, because that’s when i So two years ago, I got diagnosed as autistic ADHD, and it’s I’ve actually relaunched the book since, because it’s now got an intro that says this and explains this. And the way I’ve written the book is very short chapter. Sometimes it’s half a page, and everybody who’s read it has said this really helps, because I really struggle to read long paragraphs, and I can dip in and out of this and Oh, my God, that page was brilliant, and I read it back to front, and it didn’t matter. And I’m like, I didn’t even realize that’s why I’d done it until afterwards. So there’s a there’s a managing a business as a neuro divergent, divergent person element to to both the podcast and the book. The book was unintentional, and the podcast is now very intentional, because I know, and each you know, each episode has has an element of that to it.

18:29

So how did that come about, getting the diagnosis? Was there something in particular in your life that brought attention to it?  Um, there were lots of people a community in a community are in there were lots of people who are talking about ADHD, and late diagnosis of ADHD in women. And so I started, kind of, I joined a few Facebook groups, and I started looking at the memes, and I’m like, Oh, my God, yes, yes, yes. So I kind of, you know, that was the start of the journey, and that would have been the summer of 2022 and I was like, Oh, this starts to make sense. And all the bad stuff, the challenging, negative stuff, started to really kind of make sense there. And then I went to a talk with my husband. You know, if there’s nothing more neurodivergent than this, I don’t know what is. I went to a talk with my husband about ADHD, and the person sat next to me said, Oh, and you’re autistic too. And because we’re we’re all neurodivergent, we’re all talking to each other. Lot of excitement in the room. And I was like, Excuse me. And she said, Oh, well, you’ve just said this, and you’re doing this and you’re doing that. And I’m like, what? So of course, that sent me down that particular rabbit hole, and I booked a private assessment, having done the online, online quizzes, not you know, what kind of pizza topping are you, but the ones that are part of the autistic diagnosis process, yeah, and I booked a private, private assessment, and sure enough, past twin flying colors, yeah, scored really highly and definitely autistic. And I mean, you know, when you’re in your 40s, yeah. Yeah, and you’ve been living life just that’s your life. It’s really difficult because it changes your perspective on everything, some of it to a desperately sad point, because, oh, my God, I wish that hadn’t happened. Or I can, you know, kind of see why that happened. And partly from a huh, I get why I’m so good at this, and I get why I like this, and, you know, so it was really a kind of thing of two halves, but yeah, it, I guess, having the podcast, and it’s changed the way I my content in the podcast, and it certainly changed the way that I work with my clients, because there, there ain’t a neurodivergent person who doesn’t come to me and go, Hello, I feel seen. So, yeah,

20:41

I love that. And did you find, I’m curious to know, before you got your diagnosis, that you were naturally attracting neurodivergent clients? Yeah, I mean, looking back for sure, but I don’t think I mean Blimey, it wasn’t really talked about until the last handful of years. I certainly mean violent beacons, see it and how we talk or how we share things, and there’s something about it that kind of, even if people haven’t had, I mean, I’ve not had a diagnosis, but I strongly suspect I am and my children have got the diagnoses. But I did notice that I’ve worked with a psychologist who does kind of ADHD diagnoses as well and things like that. And I just started looking at my clients and thinking, there’s a lot of them who are either them who are either diagnosed or on the path to getting diagnosed, or who suspect they are, and I think that’s partly part and parcel of being self employed. I think a lot for sure of Yeah, because what you were sharing about the corporate world and burnout. I mean, I used to get migraines from working in an office with bright lights all the time, and I used to hate picking up the phone, which I’ve since learned is a thoroughly autistic trait. Absolutely love zoom calls, which obviously didn’t exist back then, but I just absolutely hate phone calls. They cause endless anxiety for me. So yeah, I found it interesting as I started to understand it about myself, that I also saw it in a lot of my clients, and they often say that we often attract people who some value something about our values, and our values, obviously can be a reflection of that. Anyway, I’m waffling here, but I find it all really exciting. I mean, in terms of understanding that about yourself, has that changed any way in that you approach your business? I mean, it sounds to me like to a certain extent, you’d already created some kind of scaffolding for yourself in terms of what you were already communicating in your book. You’re accidentally neurodivergent. I’m more brilliant than I realize. You know, tell me more about that. Yeah,

22:34

I think I’d done it well. I’ve spent a lifetime, as have many late, diagnosed or suspected diagnosed people is I spent a lifetime putting scaffolding in place, but more as a kind of I need to function in this. This is how everyone else does it, you know, right from Oh, this is how people dance in a nightclub to this is how we behave in meetings, or that’s how I should hold a pen, you know, the kind of extent of, oh, that’s what I’m meant to be doing. That, I think, is it goes through absolutely everything that I’ve ever done in my life. And I didn’t realize that that was a symptom of, that’s not the right word. But, you know, I kind of was attribute. That’s a better word of autism, but it certainly is. And in the business I’d spent a long time, I think kind of doing what I should be doing right and then fighting it or railing against it, or just just jacking it in, just completely I’m not doing that anymore, you know, almost like reacting to stuff, or, sorry, pivoting, you know, reacting to stuff and doing stuff stuff differently. But it was once I’d got the diagnosis that I understood why, and I was able to be far more compassionate with myself. And now, when I have a brilliant idea, I don’t immediately action everything. I’m like, let it sit for a bit. See if it’s an idea that actually has got legs. See if you just want to do the idea, and you don’t want to do what the idea becomes. And the long term delivery of all that you know, thinking about things much more differently, and just knowing that it’s okay if I have a meltdown about something ridiculous, because it’s kind of part of me, and I don’t judge myself for that, and it’s really helped my relationship, not that my relationship was at any turmoil anyway. But you know my husband, I’m very fortunate that my husband is one of the kindest and most compassionate and caring people that you could ever meet, and he’s been on this journey with me too well. His youngest daughter’s just been diagnosed with ADHD. So, you know, there’s probably a bit of him, bit in him too. It just, you know, feel very fortunate that the people around me were able to go right, this is happening because let’s either find a way to cope with it or just go, Yeah, fine, and move on. And I’ve done that with the with the business, and that’s why I’m so passionate about people building businesses that make them happy. First and foremost, and happy is, you know, comes with lots of layers, right? Because happy would mean you don’t have to start before 11 o’clock. Because you’ve got a chronic illness and you can’t get up and moving or whatever, it doesn’t matter. But that’s, that’s kind of all, all part of it that makes such a difference.

25:06

Yeah, no, I think this is such a valuable conversation, because I know when I first went into online business, I mean, that’s one of the reasons why I hate live launching, I would physically get ill. And I think that’s one of the things people really underestimate about, in my case, undiagnosed neurodivergency, is, you know, the fact that it can actually, you know, give you migraines. You’re much more prone to burnout. And I’m curious to know listening to you, because ADHD is something that people increasingly have an awareness of. I almost feel like there’s less of a stigma around ADHD, because it’s such something you hear about pretty much every single day in the press and in the news and but autism, particularly in women, I think, is something that is less spoken about, less understood. And it’s kind of complicated, isn’t it? Because the ADHD is wanting your brain to do one thing, and the autism is almost pulling your brain in the opposite direction. What does that look like for you and your business, sometimes utter chaos, and sometimes a perfect balance, because they counteract each other. Sometimes, you know, the brilliant I mean, my brain never stops, and I’m always exhausted, right? I think I probably always function on like, level three burnout. You know, in the five levels, I’m two or certainly one all the time, but there’s, yeah, I fluctuate between one and three all the time. But it’s not necessarily a coping thing. It’s my brain just never switches off kind of thing. And so I have to make space for, like, almost numbing, you know, like, like watching stuff on TV, I find a really calming experience because I can concentrate on that and this, apart from what else were they in? What was that? I wonder who chose that lamp in the background? You know, all other stuff. It’s kind of like a calming thing. And I know that it’s not me being lazy or me lacking motivation. It’s the way that I have to kind of live my life. But when I got diagnosed, or when I went forward for the for the diagnosis, and then the diagnosis itself, I cried all the way through the assessment proper solved all the way through it, and she said it, then the end, she said, emotional regulation is one of the key factors. And I’m not just but it I had a real grief with it, and a real shame as well I did, because I’m like, well, ADHD, everybody talks about that, and that’s like the spicy one that makes you a fun person to be around, and autism, no, they’re the weirdos. And I felt really kind of, I felt really awkward and uncomfortable about that, but I feel awkward and uncomfortable in most situations. So fits, right?

27:39

I’m just really grateful for you sharing this, because I don’t think, I imagine there must be other people feeling similar, and I will say I personally relate to everything you’re sharing as well. I think maybe that’s one of the reasons why I’ve held off getting a diagnosis, is there is a slightly deep, rooted fear as to how will people perceive me if I kind of start banging the drum about being autistic. But at this stage, I’ve talked about it enough, it’s probably about time to change that, but it’s really inspirational hearing your journey with it and how you manage it. And I hear you with the whole sometimes it can create this perfect balance, and other times it’s exhausting. And I, funnily enough, talk about brain rot TV to my daughter. I’m like, I’m watching brain rot TV right now, and it’s all these predictable, repeating kind of shows where the formula is very similar, because your brain can’t get overstimulated by it.

28:25

It’s funny. It’s funny because we when, when we say, my husband don’t say, Oh, should we watch a film? It’s become a bit of a standing joke, but I’m not sure we watch jaws. He’s like, we saw Jaws last month. And I’m like, you know, what about? What about Anchorman or bridesmaids? Because they’re the two go to funny ones, yeah, and I’m like, oh, maybe, maybe Sharknado, just for something really rubbish. But we did the other day. We did watch Back to Back to the Future, which I don’t think we’ve watched for over a year. So there are these ones that you kind of keep, keep coming back to, and there’s a comfort in the familiarity of that. And I mean, each time you see something new and different in these because your brain is always, you know, always looking at lots of different things. But there’s a reason that people memorize all can quote a film from beginning to end, too, because there’s a comfort in that. And then having to not knowing the storyline does add a bit of stress sometimes to things I find. And that sounds really ridiculous to say that, but it’s true, yeah, you don’t have the mental capacity to for it. And it’s like, it’s like food as well, you know? I’ll I’ll say, sounds like my husband is my carer. He really isn’t. But, you know, I’ll say to him, if he’s cooking the dinner, and he’ll say, which fans for dinner? I’m like, nothing with bits. And it’s like, I don’t have the brain space, the mental capacity to eat anything with bits, so we have macaroni cheese or something like that, because it’s just it things are so overwhelming, yeah, or I’ve had a tiring day, you know, I’ve had loads of zoom calls, or I’ve had a, you know, a client’s been upset, and that’s been quite kind of, I’ve given quite a lot of emotion to that could be anything, or just life’s just been shitty, whatever it’s like, I can’t cope with eating this food. It just needs. To be something familiar, yeah, comfortable, yeah, that makes sense. And am I right in that you don’t drink alcohol either? No, I don’t. I’ve never really liked it, but I haven’t. I’ve had my stint of binge drinking, but now I stopped in December 2023 I just thought, Oh, this is stupid. I don’t like it. I don’t want to, I don’t want to hang over. I don’t really like feeling drunk. I don’t like some of the things. Some of the things I do when I’m drunk, so I’m just never going to drink again. Yeah, I mention it mainly because when when you were talking about the struggle with switching the brain off, that’s something I used to do on a Friday, like, I needed to have some wine to switch my brain off. Otherwise I just like, I’d be like, now my brain is at the same level that the average neurotypical brain is at, where you can actually be present and you can listen and you can not be kind of, I don’t want to use what? Well, yeah, I guess I was kind of stimming. You know, if I was a bit over stimulated at the end of the week, I’d be kind of regulating myself by pulling my hair and stuff. But I’m also on a journey of basically borderline entire sobriety. I drink very, very rarely these days, but it has been its own challenge. Doing that alongside that busy brain, and finding ways to kind of calm the busy brain down naturally, without any of those other things, has been a real journey. Well,

31:14

addiction is not to say alcoholic, but addiction is, I can’t remember the percentages, but it’s quite high in neurodivergent people. And I think it’s probably that wanting to fit in, trying to feel normal. And because our whatever it is our chemical balance is imbalanced in in a neurotypical way, or neurotypical world, then whatever it is that makes you feel like you’re normal is, yeah, it’s much more common. So there’s, there’s all sorts of addictions that that people have, and the same with mental health often being in a worse state. I don’t know what the expression is, but you know, people suffering from mental health conditions is more common in neurodivergent people. And I honestly think it’s just we’re trying to fit into a bloody world that doesn’t fit with us. Yeah,

32:03

the time, which is why what you’re doing is really great, because you’re helping people find a way to do business in a way that feels good for them. And I think you know that can, you know, a lot of people talk about feel good business, right? But you’re the reason, and angle behind what you’re talking about is so fundamental and so important. And I think sometimes we can almost not want to gift ourselves a feel good business. It almost feels like we feel guilty, or we feel embarrassed, or how can our, you know, our partner go out to work and we’re picking our feet up, watching Gilmore Girls for the fifth time, doing one claw call and saying, I’m done now. But actually, like you say, so many people who aren’t self employed, who are autistic or ADHD, who are physically getting ill and mentally getting ill from working in an environment that was never designed for them. You know, self employment is amazing, like having a daughter. I look at her and I just think I’m so glad I’m modeling to her a way of working, because her ADHD is much strong, like it presents way, much more prominent than it’s ever presented in me. So it really does influence her. It’s really limiting her ability academically, but she’s incredibly bright, and so it’s really nice to kind of, I don’t know the world is changing, isn’t it, but it’s not changing fast enough, and between school, hospitals, work environment. So many of these places are hostile to people who have got that sensitivity and in how they how they go about the world, yeah, so

33:29

terrifying places half half the time, you know, because there’s rules that you don’t know what the rules are. And like you said, the lights are really bright, and there’s loads of background noise, and that can be enough to send you over the edge. You know, it really, it can be enough to bring on a meltdown, or, I don’t know, make you poorly or migraines, or whatever it is, however it manifests for you. And it is, I don’t think people realize, and it sounds, you know, like trying to explain to my parents, who are of the generation of were you, all right, aren’t you? Just get on with it. It’s like, you know, that’s what we were raised. I certainly what I was raised on. You know, that’s what we were raised on. And now trying to to unlearn everything that we’ve been taught all those years to be. Do you know what? I’m not a loser, I’m not a disappointment, I’m not lazy, I’m not flaky, I’m not a failure. I have this, you know, if you had an illness, right, rather than a condition, neurological condition, people would treat you very, very differently. But I think, though it’s, it’s not recognized, or they recognized in society as being anything other than, you know, this is, this is the new fad. They’re all like this, you know,

34:37

yeah, yeah. It’s so misunderstood in many ways. So I’m curious to know, because this feels a really nice way to kind of be wrapping up this conversation, are there certain principles that you abide by that support you as you navigate running your own business and also in the ways that you support your clients? Yeah, my biggest one is, do I want to. Do this yes or no. And I really, I’m quite strict with myself on that, because we all get opportunities or ask questions or invited to things that we would have said, you know, and maybe we should say yes to and along the way, we certainly would have done but it’s like, if there’s a feeling of, I’m not sure that that feels right, right through to absolutely no way it’s okay to say no to these things. So I say no. I’ve always been quite good at saying no, but now I realize why the reason, or the full reasons I made to think through the consequences and say no before I get too far in and have to extract myself from something. So I really do abide by that one, and I encourage all my clients to and it goes along with boundaries. Like, you know, what days of the week do you want to take calls from clients, or have calls with clients? And sometimes my clients will look at me, go, I can choose that. And I’m like, yeah, just say, just don’t have Mondays available. And then you don’t do that on Mondays. And it’s like, something as simple as that can be really, really revolutionary. So do I want to do this? Yes or No, putting really strict boundaries in place, deciding what those boundaries are, and putting them into place. And then, does this make me happy? Is the best one? Oh,

36:09

I love all of these. Libby, it’s been such a joy listening to everything you’ve been sharing. And I know there’s going to be so many valuable nuggets in the conversation we’ve just had that people will take away from what we’ve been sharing. For anyone who wants to learn even more about your wonderful book, your amazing podcast, and just about your you and your fabulous self and your offers? Where can they find you?

36:27

Best place for all of that is to go to my website, which is Libby langley.com they’re straightforward. My podcast is called unstuck. It’s on all the podcast apps, but you can get to it through my website. My book is called Life in business. It’s on Amazon. You can get to it through my website, and I’m Libby Langley on all the social media channels. So yeah, I’d love to, I’d love to hear from people, and hear how you know, as listeners of your podcast, how this is kind of enhanced what they already get from you and what you support them with. It would be really interesting to kind of carry that conversation on with people, if they, if you know, if they kind of have got questions to ask, I’m always open to chatting with people, sure,

37:04

for sure. Well, we’ll make sure that your website is in the show notes, so it’s super easy for people to reach out to you. And thanks again, Libby. It’s been fabulous. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you. Well,

37:15

I absolutely loved that conversation with Libby, and I would absolutely love to have more guests on the show talking about how neurodiversity impacts their journey with entrepreneurship, because it’s a personal journey that I’m on as well, yet, although not yet diagnosed, and it really fascinates me to learn the different ways that people manage their nervous system and their unique needs as they navigate entrepreneurship. But in the meantime, I will be back next week in your ears with the how to make money over the summer, answering your questions. Episode, it was pushed back a week because I have been down with the flu. Keep safe out there, peeps. It’s a ravenous one. Anyway, I’ll be back in your ears next week, as always. If you found this episode helpful, please do subscribe, please do share. Please do make sure you get this in the ears of your business besties, because the more people who can listen to this podcast, the more people who can benefit from all the good stuff that we keep on delivering week Upon week. I’ll be in your ears next week.