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Welcome to Make More Money without Selling Your Soul with me Polly Lavarello, evergreen marketing expert. This podcast is for you if you are an online entrepreneur who is looking to simplify their business to scale.  On this podcast you can expect to hear regular talk about wealth, about selling and about wellbeing. Because I believe these three core fundamental things are pivotal to your growth moving forward.

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Welcome to make more money without selling your soul with myself Polly Lavarello, Evergreen marketing expert and cushy business pioneer.

And today I am sharing with you part two of how to create a profitable group program. So if you missed the last episode, I do encourage you to skip back and listen to it because it’s honestly probably one of the best episodes I’ve recorded. Today I’ve shared some really super valuable insights, when it comes to all the things you need to consider. When you’re creating honestly any kind of new service whether you’re thinking about a one to one package, an online course or a group program or even a membership. The very first point I shared around what you need to consider in terms of who you’re creating it for is just invaluable if I say so myself. So yeah, part one just to kind of briefly recap, but like I said, I do encourage you to go back and listen to the whole thing was obviously about who is it for part two was about program design, and how you create a curriculum that doesn’t seem overwhelming to people who are looking at how they can work with you. And part three, is about determining the format and the duration of your program, which overlaps slightly with part two. And I’m actually gonna go a little bit more in depth on that one today, before we go into points four to seven, don’t worry, they won’t be very long. But I do want to just elaborate a bit more on it because I’m conscious essentially that the last episode was getting very long. So I kind of quickly whizzed through that part. And it’s actually a really important part.

So I wanted to go more in depth on it. But before we get to that, just a little bit of storytime. And just to kind of I guess, a real reminder as to why this work really matters. And why it feels really important to share it with you. I follow somebody in the wellbeing space, who talks a lot about healing about nervous system regulation, just all sorts of subjects that really appealed to me. You know, she references, neurodiversity, and how to live with it. And today, I noticed that she has a membership. And so I went and had a look, like really ready and willing, and I looked at how much it cost. And I was like, yeah, that’s super affordable, I could do that. But when I went to try and get an understanding as to kind of what’s the main premise behind this membership, what’s the journey I’m going to be on? It just felt really overwhelming. She has loads of different guests, experts that come in every month. And yes, they’re very high calibre. And yes, they’re talking on interesting subjects. But the thought process that went through my mind was, yep, I could just buy some books and learn this. On my own time, I could just listen to podcasts. I don’t see how this is taking me from A to B, or C or anywhere. Really, I thought it’d be very interesting, but I didn’t really see what problem it would be fixing. In fact, with my ADHD brain, I looked at it. And I just thought it’s the kind of thing that I’ll probably go into, because it listed the fact that you know, you’ll get access to all these old tutorials and various other things.

And I just thought I’ll just go in there and feel overwhelmed. I won’t know what to watch first. And there was no reassurances around that that wouldn’t be the case. Like, for example, in my container, one of the things that we’re working on, we’re just working on the platform right now, myself and Sally in the portal. And one of the things that I’ve stated as a priority is that I know because my mentorship meets mastermind, includes so much information around affiliate marketing around building your group program and market research around air table around Facebook ads. I mean, there’s so much information in there. And obviously, when I work with my clients, I create a bespoke roadmap for them to ensure that they’re not focusing on areas that won’t move the needle for them. Because everyone comes in at slightly different stages in their business journey. And it would be totally unhelpful for them to treat my program like Netflix and binge on everything. And instead, it’s about focusing on the areas that are going to serve you and essentially looking at this membership. I didn’t see any evidence of that. And obviously it’s relatively low cost. That’s fair enough. But even at a low ticket price point, I decided it wasn’t worth the investment despite the fact that this woman is swimming in brand authority, and I really, really appreciate her content.

So anyway, that’s a little I’m wrapping up My storytime here, but I just wanted to remind you like, Are there ever any times that you similarly have looked at an investment? And have those kinds of objections like, but what am I actually achieving? How long is this actually going to take? Is this going to be another time drain that’s actually going to overwhelm me, rather than help me move forward? And how well will I actually be supported? And now think about your own offerings and think about how do you clearly address any of those objections or fears, because a lot of people will have them and notice that I was having those objections, even when the price point was really frickin low to sign up for this membership, I still know that I have limited time available. And I really value how I spend it. And I’m not going to be spending it getting overwhelmed. And feeling like I have to make the most of something because I’ve invested in it new, thank you. And it felt ironic to me that she works in the nervous system, like talk so much about nervous system regulation, because I was like, the most regulating thing for me right now instead, would probably be just to gradually work through the books of the people that she has as guest experts and just be on a journey with them and learn from them and go deeper into the work they do. Rather than feel like I’m spread across all these various different things and not going deep on any of them that just didn’t feel of service to me.

So something to think about before we get into the meat. Okay, so skipping over the format, okay, so one of the most commonly asked questions I get when people come in to my container scale with the power one or elevate for evergreen is, boom, boom, how long should my group program be? Now, the question I commonly asked in response to that is, well, how long do they need for the transformation? And there is another level to this, because I do recognise sometimes I contradict myself somewhat, because on the one hand, yes, you do need to consider how long your transformation takes. And if that transformation is one that, you know, realistically, could take years, you know, in the healing space, a lot of things to really firmly evolve and embed and grow, do take years, right? You know, like, even in the business space, right? Who I was three years ago is very different to who I am now. And yet there are still learnings I learned really early on in business, that I’m still like, Oh, that is what they meant, right? Because I’m just at a stage in my business that those learnings drop in at a different level. Okay. So the point here is growth is infinite, right. But we need to ensure that what we are giving someone is distinctly measurable that like I say, similar to my concerns, when I looked at that membership, in terms of what is the journey I’m going on here, what in my life is being supported, that’s valuable, you know, what can I support my logical brain to understand is, am I getting out of this investment?

So what I’d say here is people will go from having next to no brand or authority, perhaps no group program to being like, I want to build a 12 month program. Now that can be really challenging to sell if you’re in the early phases of your business. I obviously sell scale with the power one, which is a 10 month program. And yes, I have run adverts to entirely what they refer to as cold leads, ie people who have never heard my name or seen my content before. And yes, they have booked in calls, and yes, they have converted onto the program. However, when I changed my group program from being a three month program to a four month program to a six month program, and then eventually a 10 month program, I’m not going to lie when I say that there was a bit of a drop off in terms of the conversion rate. And certainly people kind of saying, I will come back to this when I feel ready, who I knew were a good fit for now. But because of the way I ethically conduct myself in sales calls, I let them make that empowered decision. But I felt disappointed on their behalf because I suspected that had they committed to themselves there. And then that, you know, we could be seeing what they could be seeing the success that they desired, significantly sooner. And so one of the things I had to reflect on earlier this year was, well, how do I make this easier for people? Because I appreciate that actually, for me, if I were to discover someone entirely new online, would I want to commit to working with them for 10 months without really knowing very much about them? I don’t think most people, you know, certainly those lacking that kind of impulsive streak.

There are a lot of very discerning people who weren’t quite frankly. And at the same time, that’s kind of a concern as a business owner, because those who aren’t deciding immediately, you know that that’s a lot more work in terms of nurturing those leads. So how do we make it a really easy? Yes, I am in and that is where initially I thought I would do a kind of policy that if they weren’t happy, they could leave after 90 days. And then I realised that it didn’t even need to be that complicated. And instead, I would take the first 90 days of scale with the power one, which are those where we really create the biggest shifts and the biggest momentum and then all we do beyond that within scale with the power one is build upon and refine upon that until we’ve got a really robust evergreen system. But those first 90 days are pivotal. They’re the bit where people really have the most hearts and breakthroughs and excitement, let’s face it, that’s also where that kind of like all in this is there. It’s very hard to sustain that for much beyond 90 days.

But to be honest with you, once you’ve had those breakthroughs in 90 days, you then feel motivated to be all in beyond that. So those first 90 days of pivotal and the experience inside Cisco with the power one, so I recognised why not just package those up as their own program, where people then have the opportunity to choose to stay on and scale with the power one on the other side. And so that is where elevate for evergreen was born. Because I recognise so many people were trying to turn evergreen, saying evergreen doesn’t work purely because they had never actually made their funnels or their offer, or their messaging fit for cold leads, rather than people that already like knew and trusted them. And yeah, it’s been significantly easier to sell ever since. And I just love it, it feels better for me as well. So what I’m saying here is, I think it’s really powerful, particularly in the earlier phases of business. I think there’s certainly phases later on in business, where should you wish to, you could just have year only containers, I certainly know there’s brands out there with significant brand authority, who will make claims like you know, you won’t achieve what you desire to achieve in any less than a year.

So that is the minimum commitment. I know, there’s some out there that say three. But what I will say all of those brands have in common is that they have the brand authority, they have the case studies and stories that enable them to be bold with claims like that, and for people to trust in claims like that. And to get to the stage where you can be doing things like that, it definitely pays to have what they refer to in the marketing world as a feeder program, which essentially is similar to the business model, while the group coaching model I just shared with you, which is a three month container, which gives you the foundations or sometimes a make the analogy of taking you to base camp. And that if they want to then reach the summit, they can then continue on working with you. And the follow on container is usually like you know, say around nine months. So essentially, a new client comes into your world, and a large percentage of them will stay on to work with you for 12 months, and a smaller percentage will do the three months and then perhaps take a break or come back or maybe not come back at all. What’s really important about those three months is it also gives you a really good opportunity not just for your ideal client to see whether they really vibe with your way of mentoring and coaching or whatever it is that you’re doing healing. And if they don’t, they’re giving it the minimum time period, I would say probably is essential to really give it a go, which is three months. And at the same time, if it doesn’t feel good, they can really easily bow out and that’s going to be better for you too, it’s going to be better for the energy of the container, it’s going to be better for your own energy.

So I’m a huge fan of it. And when people come in to scale with the power one or elevate for evergreen, depending on where they’re at in business, this is what we look at, we look at what is the transformation you can deliver to someone in a period between six to 12 weeks, which is going to really help them with where they are stuck right now with where they want to be. How is it going to create some momentum, some growth, something that they can really tangibly see perhaps something that’s also going to give them the confidence to trust in going even deeper with this work. And this is really relevant in the wellbeing space. You know, this really works with those in that subconscious transformation space. Because if someone you know is really stuck, it’s really hard to believe it could be any different. If you can show them in six weeks have different life can look in just that time period, they are not just going to be open to working with you again, they will be already reaching out to say how can I continue working with you. And that’s the energy we want from our clients.

So when I talk about step number three being determining the time and the format, do think really carefully about whether you’re making the first phase of working with you. And easy hell yes. And if you don’t have the existing brand or authority or case studies to justify why it should be really easy yes to work with you inside a longer container. And if sales for that longer container are slowing down 100% One of the easiest things to look at. And it doesn’t necessarily even mean creating a step one prior to your program, it may be simply selling off a part of your program, as I’ve done with Elevate for Evergreen. And what’s really nice about that is it means if anyone decides to continue working with me inside school with the power one, it’s not going to be a massive surprise to them. They’re not going to be confused by what they’re finding on the other side. Because essentially the program isn’t any different. The format is exactly the same. Step four is pricing strategy. Again, sometimes I see people wanting to charge high ticket for a demographic that quite frankly, it’s just really not a good fit for and then wondering why nobody’s buying. This should sound really obvious, but the problem is there are people out there in the online space kind of saying, if you really want it you’ll make it happen and all that other kind of rubbish and so it can lead people kind of, you know, almost like trying to gaslight or using high pressure sales tactics to sell a product or an offer or a service to a demographic that just are not a good fit for it. So please do your homework, like, you know, a lot of my clients will say, Well, I’ve worked with this kind of one to one client, and they were happy to pay this. This was the outcome they got.

And they were so happy that there was this kind of group coaching client who came in at this stage, which meant that it was much easier for them to achieve x y Zed, so they left really happy. And then there were those who came in, who struggled to meet payment plans who weren’t fully invested, who didn’t really show up who regularly complained who dropped out two months early. And they’ll often just accept that that’s just how it is. And you know, one of the things that we explore together is like, well, what if you just got to attracting more of those people who had the best foundations to succeed, so that they then came out with the very best results, which looks wonderful for you, wonderful for your group program, and obviously wonderful for them, which is the most important piece, obviously great for affiliate marketing, because it means that they’re going to bring in even more people in a very similar predicament to them. And that can be as simple as looking at your messaging to ensure that you’re attracting in people like that. So do look at that, because it’s a really important piece that can be quite eye opening.

And now step five is creating the bones of your program like the framework. Now why do I say the bones are not the meat and the flesh, it’s because until you’ve actually sold your offer, you don’t want to be too far ahead, you want to have confidence in what it is that you’re delivering, you want to know what it is that you’re promising, you want to be basing it on other work, you’ve supported people within the past so that when it comes to selling it, you can be doing it from a really good energetic space. You know, I have noticed with those who’ve come to me and wanted to create something entirely new, they’ve always struggled to sell it more because they can’t visualise what it is that they’re actually selling to people. So it does pay to work with what you already know. And that’s why people would want to pay you right, because they’re paying for you and your experience and your knowledge and then expertise that grows from actually living it. So do make sure you have some kind of framework do not get carried away creating week’s worth of content before you start selling it. That is the ultimate form of procrastination, that so many people lend themselves to really easily. So do think about what you want to create. And certainly once you start selling it and people start saying they’re interested, it doesn’t hurt to start getting, you know, a week or two ahead with content. But generally speaking, what I advise to most of my clients, when it comes to launching is still allow a healthy window between cart closing and when you launch your program, so then you can take the time to start building your program and getting ahead. And like I say, if you’re already building on resources and various things you have already, for most of my clients, they find it surprisingly, doesn’t take that long. And the other thing I regularly remind them of is most people do not have hours to binge through all your content. So don’t feel pressured to create hours worth of content week upon week, because most people probably won’t read it. So do remind yourself of what is required as a minimum requirements. And then you can be adding on those things. And you’re going to have all the time and spaciousness around it anyway. Because your main requirement hosting a group program is your one or two coaching calls a week, it’s not going to take up much your time. So you’re going to have lots of time for content creation.

So while you’re in that selling phase, do focus on selling because the worst thing you can do after closing costs is to think oh, did I really commit to this? Did I fully show up for this? Or was I bit half in half out? There’s nothing worse than recognising you a half in half out and still not getting the results because you’ll never entirely know, was it because you were half in half out that people didn’t buy okay. And people pick up on that energy and it is not it’s not sexy, okay. Okay. Six is marketing and promoting it. You can do this in a variety of ways. What I recommend to my clients is a masterclass, there’s no quicker, easier way to bang the drum and make people aware of what it is that you’re doing. And I find masterclasses always get such beautiful high conversion rates, particularly to sales calls, which is amazing, because that’s where we learn the most. And this is the other thing I say so much to my clients at this phase is like have as many conversations as you humanly can, like, this is a time that you should be reaching out to ideal fit clients saying, Hey, I’ve just developed this program and not gonna lie to you or the person I had in mind when I created this and learn from them.

You know, this isn’t about necessarily pitching them. But it is saying, Would you be happy to learn a bit more about this because your feedback would be invaluable? And that’s where if they say things like, that sounds great, but those buckets are invaluable. You want to learn all of those things. You know, a lot of the time I find during this market research phase where you’re reaching out to ideal clients. Yes, a beautiful side effect is a large number that may turn around and say I want to work with you. And that’s how a lot of people start to sell out their program before they’ve even launched it. But more importantly, when we go from that space of just inquiry and curiosity, and a real like willingness to learn and a commitment to a quality and what we’re delivering, just going in with that energy is you know that that is the most important piece because then people will genuinely share it with you, they will not fear that you’re just trying to pitch it them. And from that energy you can learn the most because that is how you then ensure that your messaging really reaches any of those potential objections head on. And also similarly enables you to reflect on how you’ve currently formatted your program to see if it’s actually reaching all the needs that your ideal clients have.

So like I say, I would be promoting masterclass, I would be reaching out to ideal fit clients, I would be having as many conversations as I can, I would certainly be opening a waitlist in advance. I have a client who saw that eight of her 10 spots on her program just by doing this alone, people were so excited for what it was she was creating. And as she shared the process of what it was that she was bringing into the world and teasing it and obviously inviting people to join her waitlist, the response was just incredible. She’s continued to sell that program out continuously ever since and continue to increase the quality of the experience for her clients. As its continued. It’s just been incredible to see. And that is honestly, what comes out the other side of the deep work around step number one, really knowing who your client is and what it is that they need and how it is that they describe it. And you may be surprised to hear this. But the final step, step number seven in creating a profitable group program is of course, for people to feel confident in committing to your group program, it is helpful to have a sales page.

Now what I tend to get my clients to do is create it in a Google Doc, there is absolutely no reason to be spending hours on formatting and selecting nice brand photographs and getting all your fonts aligned and all that stuff. No, you really don’t need to be doing that I think there’s a real intimacy to sharing a Google document, there’s a real simplicity to it. There’s a real trustworthiness actually around Google Docs. And it’s interesting, because unless you’ve sold this way before, most people I’ve ever shared this with have kind of flinched at it and felt nervous about it. But honestly, it’s becoming so much more common, particularly in the online business space. Because of course, you know, while these ideas are relatively in beta mode, why would you be investing either your time or your money and building a sales page, which will not be its best yet, because you haven’t had anyone go through the program yet. And once you start going through the program, you will start to recognise this is what I need to be emphasising more, or this is the module I’ve added that I didn’t know we needed. And you don’t want to be adding in all those things afterwards. a Google doc is more than enough, the most important thing you should always be inviting people to is sales calls. And there’s no reason why on the sales call, you can’t break down enough that someone shouldn’t be excited to give you their payment immediately. But I also do like to have a Google doc up my sleeve.

So that for those who like to take their time and mull it over with a cup of tea, that they have a way to remind themselves of everything that we have discussed. But the other really valuable thing about that as well as people tend to use sales pages as like a kind of get out of having uncomfortable conversations. Like if someone says, Wow, I missed your master class, what is it that you’re selling? It sounds really interesting. The amount of times I’ve seen people go, Oh, yeah, well, here’s my sales page. And they think because they spent loads of money or time on it, or because the copy is really good, that that’s going to be enough to sell it, a sales page will never do as much heavy lifting as a conversation with yourself. I mean, it will do eventually, once you’ve had those conversations, but in those early stages, do not skip this part. Okay. And I think this is always the thing with online business. A lot of people want to skip to the good part. A lot of people want to like mirror, what they see more advanced entrepreneurs doing those guys have earned their stripes. If you watch below deck, they have earned their stripes to get there, they have put in the late shifts and done the morning that the anchor watches. Oh my god, I should not be giving this stuff away. But they have earned their stripes. Okay. And that is why they can get away with that kind of stuff, because they’ve got that level of brand authority. Okay. It’s really not advisable in the and when I say earliest stages of business. I mean, like in the first three years of business, to be sending someone to a sales page, I think kind of beyond that, depending on where you’re at with your brand authority in your visibility, and the number of people who’ve worked with you, you can perhaps start to do that. But in those early phases, please do not.

And honestly, there are people out there like Scott Alfred, who’s been playing this game a long time and a multimillionaire and he still uses Google Docs for sales pages. He doesn’t Miss Li is very famous for not taking any calls. But he does use Google Docs. So do not be shy to use a Google Doc and in his earlier phases of business, do not be afraid to have calls. In fact, that’s one thing I’d say about you know, again, someone like Scott off it’s been in the business a long time, he can take that approach because he’s got that level of brand authority. He is a self made millionaire who was incredibly successful. Nobody’s gonna question why he’s not doing calls for other people early on in their business. You try to model the same thing. It’s just not wise. Okay, so anyway, I like to think I have beautifully wrapped up the seven steps. So to remind you what they are one who is it for two, what is your curriculum member ABC make it as simple as humanly possible for your ideal client understand it sounds overly complex, and they’re gonna have to pull up an encyclopaedia or Google spiritual stuff to understand what it is you’re saying, then you’ve already lost them. Okay? So make sure that you have thought about your curriculum and how you’re going to break it into three phases or four phases. Step number three, determine the format and duration, which like I say, kind of overlaps with step number two, but um, I guess, essentially, the two is the external, like, how are you wrapping it up for your ideal clients? Step number three, is the internal thinking about now how do I actually make this work so that they get through those phases most effectively?

Step number four is ensuring that your pricing is adequately matched to the demographic that you’re looking to market to? Yes, we get to be stretchy in some spaces, but in others, we really don’t. So do look at that gorgeously, because it tends to be for most of my clients that they do have people within their following who are a good match for their high ticket offers, but they aren’t always necessarily marketing to them. So do look at that. Step number five is getting deeper into the content creation. You know, you’ve obviously already mapped out the curriculum, you’ve obviously already been clear on what your framework is, so that people understand you know, the ABC of what it is to work with you. Now it’s time to actually start like looking at what that will look like so that you have enough of a clear journey within the group program that people understand what it is that they’re coming into, and enables you to just be a bit ahead in terms of what content you need to be creating and what platform you’re going to be hosting it on. And then finally, marketing and promotion, thinking about what strategy are you going to use to live launch this, I 100%. always recommend Live launching before going evergreen, particularly if it’s a brand new offer.

But even if you just optimise your offer, it always pays to kind of just get loads of eyeballs on your offer to see how it goes down. Because if it doesn’t go down, well, you 100% do not want to be wasting your energy on turning it evergreen. Okay, so this is why I’m talking about a live launch method for your group program. It’s because if it’s brand new, you 100% want to be doing that at least the first time round, maybe even two or three times round, before you really have the marketing messaging nailed down, and you can confidently turn it into an evergreen funnel. And finally, building your Google Doc sales page. Step number seven, to ensure that you know those who want to understand the ins and outs and nuts and bolts, their logical brain wants to be spoken to that you have something to share with them after you have had a conversation with them only after. And you can even go through it with them on the sales call. Because if they have any objections, you want to hear those head on. So there you have it, my lovelies. I hope that was really, really helpful. I really, really enjoyed recording this. If you have any other questions, please do let me know as I mentioned earlier on this work that I do is my bread and butter. It is exactly what I support clients with.

So if you’re listening to this going, this sounds awesome. But I would love somebody’s eyes on this. I would love somebody’s eyes on my business on my expertise on how I wrap it up on how I niche on how I promote it on my messaging on whether I’m speaking to the right person. If you want support in all those areas, then I will be enrolling for September. So do get in touch if you’d like to be within one of my programs which will support you to elevate for evergreen. Otherwise, if for now you’re just curious if you’re just dabbling your toe in the water, go on to the show notes and you will find a brand new link a brand new freebie, the profitable program calculator which will help you and then it’s inside by the way my beautiful new home for my online business, the one Academy, head on over to there and it will help you paint a picture of what your business gets like financially in the next year when you create your profitable group program heading over and check it out. I can’t wait to hear what you think of it. do reach out to me at Poly level below and share any feedback and as always, if you found today’s episode helpful, please do share it with your friends. I would love this to reach as many ears as possible. I’ll be in your ears next week sharing three ways to squeeze the most sales out of the next quarter.